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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:56 pm • # 1 
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Apologies if this has been discussed in depth but, the title says it all...

While not technically UL, being as my lightest rod is my Lami Honey 7'6" 4wt, that's what I use when I want to "go light".

This last Fall, I started playing around with different setups for fishing streamers and really wanted to figure something out for this particular rod as it's loads of fun to fish (I fished it during the Deschutes Salmonfly hatch this last year and really had fun with it (it still cast those big flies with ease)). On a whim, I decided to line up one of my reels with a bunch of running line and play with various forms of shooting heads (both cut by me and factory). As it turned out, I had a 7wt Versitip II line lying around that I didn't really care for. The 4 tips that come with this are all 15' and I have a floating, intermediate, type 3 and type 6 (these tips are all 95gr). I attached these straight to the running line and gave it a go. Was I ever surprised at how well it cast....one back cast and fire away. I found that I'm able to cast anything up to at least a size 4 lightly weighted streamer (no bunny strips though) very easily. I'll likely be using this setup quite a bit as the majority of the waters I fish don't require streamers much larger than 2-3".

Let's hear it, what works for you?

Cheers,
Randy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:50 pm • # 2 
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Very much the same as you are doing. Check out the thread below, I have the Commando Skagit head and making my own tips to cast with the three weight. I have also acquired some heavy line which I will be cutting down to form short weight forward heads to do just as you have done. I like the idea of one back cast and shoot but even better the Skagit type of roll cast.

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=10738


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:25 am • # 3 
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I think you're on the right path. My UL streamer fishing the last couple years was mostly on an UL two hander, but it can be done on single handers with ease using shooting heads, or you can "cheat" by using your standard lines / single handers, and throwing sparse, light flies that simulate bulk. For years my go-to bass rods were 4 & 5 weights and I would chuck deceivers, clousers, and buggers handily with those. Chuck being the primary word there - the casting wasn't necessarily pretty, and getting distance was...interesting.

My only functional "ultralight" rod currently is my 6'6" 2 weight - I've found a #2 will actually throw a size 10 woolly bugger - even a cone head version - acceptably at 25-30 feet. You have to open the casting loop a little but it can be done. Smaller streamers are easy peasy on the flea flicker. For bigger stuff though - I stick with my 5 weight glass or 7 weight graphites on single handers. I played around a lot with the 5 weight and a Rio Skagit Max Short this summer and it would jack a beefy fly out with some authority. I just picked up a new 4 weight glass recently that I'm anxious to get out and fish. The 200 grain is no doubt too big for that rod - so I might pick up one of the lighter commando heads to try out with that one - probably a 150 or 175. I've also thought about hacking up an old line to mess with - but honestly the Skagit Master / OPST crew plus Rio and Aiflo have really done the leg work in that with stuff at this point and it's just a matter of getting the right grain line for the rod (and they have suggestions for that too) and you've got a factory option that's plug & play simple.

I'm pretty sure you're fairly local to me - so we're probably fishing some of the same water and fish. I'd be amenable to hooking up some time if you'd like to try out the Max Short skagit line on one of your rods. The 200 grain line, with the right rod, will turn over 10' polyleaders / versileaders, and shorter chunks of the lighter T material if you really need to get down. A 10' extra fast sinking versileader gets most flies you will be casting down well though. I found with my 5 weight Prime rod, and that skagit line I could do well upto about a size 4 medium weighted fly. A #2 cone head bunny leech usually wound up in a collapsed cast - but a size 4 tied with a thin bunny strip and medium/small barbell eyes would work. I'm playing more with synthetic materials that are less water absorbant to see if I can get bigger flies cast, for giggles. I'm thinking a 3 or 4 inch long articulated fry pattern would be interesting for some of the bass on say, the Willamette or Tualatin rivers - and most of those fish aren't big enough to really *need* a 7 weight to battle them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:43 pm • # 4 
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I may cross the line as well. Santa brought me a 6wt 9ft Sage VXP rod this christmas. (I figure talking about it is still OK because people have been talking gun hobbies on this forum as well). I've fished it once and it will become my streamer rod. I am hoping to build up to double streamers in the near future.

I put a Rio Grand 6 wt line on it. I put one of the 12' sinking heads and did fairly well. I have no backcast room because of the brush here in Missouri, so I did lots of downstream water loading and tried my hand at single handed spey casting. It wasn't pretty, but I did get my fly to the opposite bank with regularity (not necessarily precision).

I was considering the Rio Single Handed Spey line for the rod, and even in a 7wt to allow me to feel the loading better. Then I would attach the sinking leaders to that line.

I thought about the Versi Leader, but read and heard complaints that it rattles through the guides. The 12' sinking leader going through the guides didn't bother me when I used it last week. I think that is because spent the summer fishing the Driftless Area and had to resort to 15ft-16ft leaders in the name of stealth and was alway bringing those knots through the guides. So the question would remain is could you do single handed spey casting with a Versi Leader. Randy (Clarkman23) - have you ever done single handed spey casting with your Versi Leader???


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:48 pm • # 5 
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I don't feel like I'm really "chucking" at all as I keep most of my streamers (large and small) lightly weighted and tied in materials that don't soak up water too much (for larger streamers, I've been using Steve Farrar blends and absolutely love them for their movement and how easily I can cast a 6"+ pattern, but that's for an entirely different thread). But, there really is something about the seductiveness of rabbit. I've tried to like the Ambush that I use occasionally on my 6wts (for streamer fishing), but day in and day out I prefer both my little 4wt setup but by far what gets used the majority of the time is a Teeny T-200 on one of my 6wts (just the style I like to roll with)....but I digress, the entire reason I started experimenting with using just the 15' tips as their own shooting heads is because I prefer to fish lightly weighted flies and use the line itself to get them down while fishing that Lami Honey (absolutely love that rod). The couple of times I made it out last fall with that setup it certainly cast much much better than I thought it would (that's why we experiment). I do wish I knew what the running line is as it came on a reel I purchased 6 or 7 years ago, but it's really really sweet.

I totally hear ya about the Willy...I fish a 6 out there but mostly for when it's windy.

But yes, I'd totally love to geek out on some lines....haha! I'm constantly tinkering with my other setups regardless of intended quarry.


Here's my general disclaimer: I do say all of this realizing that while a 4wt isn't technically considered "ultralight", but it's the lightest I have and that's not changing anytime soon and I also have always enjoyed reading posts on this site...

Cheers


RudeDog12 wrote:
I thought about the Versi Leader, but read and heard complaints that it rattles through the guides. The 12' sinking leader going through the guides didn't bother me when I used it last week. I think that is because spent the summer fishing the Driftless Area and had to resort to 15ft-16ft leaders in the name of stealth and was alway bringing those knots through the guides. So the question would remain is could you do single handed spey casting with a Versi Leader. Randy (Clarkman23) - have you ever done single handed spey casting with your Versi Leader???


It does. That's why mine was just sitting around, but that was also when it was attached to the 7wt line it came with. I don't notice it when attached directly to this thin running line I'm using. I don't know if they are still making the 15' versileaders (these just came with the Versitip II line I have purchased for my 7wt). They are only 95gr each, so they're a little light for SH spey casting with just them (probably technically a little light for my 4wt, but I just speed up my cast and they work great). I can do it, just can't shoot a ton of line vs overhead casting (where I can generate much much more line speed). I think if they were heavier, they would be really easy to SH spey and they would really sing. I just like using them as just the head vs having a head then attaching various sink tips to them (I wish they would come up with something like this for steelhead fishing)

Cheers
Randy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:06 pm • # 6 
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According to Rio's website they only make upto 12 footers for versileaders now. Airflo makes 14 foot polyleaders in their salmon/steelhead lineup.

Your idea of a set of tips/heads big enough to use on salmon/steelhead rods by themselves is interesting - basically you're talking about ultra compact, tapered heads of various densities. It's taking something like the OPST Commando to the next level. I suppose, if you're fishing a 7 or 8 weight for steel - you could chop assorted density 12 weight lines - lopping the taper off and welding a loop - to the back end. You're essentially recreating the Wulff Triangle but instead of a full line or a long shooting head, you're talking a 15' line tops. That would get interesting for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:48 pm • # 7 
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yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The problem with the Airflo polyleaders is that you can have several different sink rates, but the grain weight is also totally different and it's dependent on what the sink rate is. This is not the case with versileaders. I do think that it would be pretty versatile (if you could get the grain weight compacted into a short head like that in the various sink rates). IMO, it could be even more versatile than what's out there now, at least with regard to how deep you could effectively fish.

Obviously, much more testing is required...ha!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:58 pm • # 8 
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I was cruising through Cabela's website earlier and discovered Sci Angler's "Third Coast Textured Tips" - Cabela's lists 11 tips, each @ $25, or the entire kit for $125 (huge savings on that if you want them all)

Each one of the tips lists at 120 to 160 grains, the floating and light sinking lines are 10 feet each, the medium and fast sinkers are 12 feet. They're tapered - essentially these are SA's answer to the Rio Versileaders.

At these weights they would make interesting compact shooting heads for a 3 weight rod. You're talking something like 12 to 14 grains per foot - that should give you plenty of mass to turn over a modest sized streamer or fly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:20 am • # 9 
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The line weight determines what you are fishing, not the weight the rod is labeled. Also, for me atleast when I truly want to streamer fish I'll go with a heavier outfit. For small streams and shorter ranges a good technique is to use a little more rod and overline it so it loads earlier.

For midge fishing in tight cover I had a lot of fun with a Superfine one weight for a couple of years but burned out on it. Always liked 3wts the best yet parted with all of them when I moved to smallies. Perhaps someday I'll get to try my new CGR 2wt and new to me Sage SP 390 2pc . Health issues interfere for now but I've high hopes for late spring in my solo canoe again. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:48 am • # 10 
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The question was, what does your setup look like if going UL for steamers?

I know what my setup currently looks like, just curious about others when they choose to go light.

And yes, it goes without saying that a heavier outfit is better day in and day out for hardcore steamer fishing, I currently use 6 and 7wts with specialized streamer lines, but there are times I just like throwing lighter rods, not always because it's the most effective, but because it's fun (lots of fun) to experiment, that is all. That pretty much sums up why I fish, because it's fun.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm • # 11 
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Randy
sometimes I can achieve your results with up-lining a 3WT TFO Finesse with 4 wt lines. Lighter flies on sink tip has been my go to on streamers on UL. IN the case of 2 wt rods I'll use 3WT sink tips and have decent results on smaller creeks as well.

In the past I had up-lined my glass Lami Brusy creek 6 piece 3wt rod with floating line and weighted flies with mixed result. Perhaps the shorter 6'6" length might have been a factor in my thinking that the longer graphite rods offered more for throwing streamers. In standard weights I love throwing streamer on my 8 1/2' 8 WT Curt Gowdy glass. With this rod I slect both weighted and unweighted flies for different applications, currents, etc.

Les


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:12 am • # 12 
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clarkman23 wrote:
The question was, what does your setup look like if going UL for steamers?

I know what my setup currently looks like, just curious about others when they choose to go light.

And yes, it goes without saying that a heavier outfit is better day in and day out for hardcore steamer fishing, I currently use 6 and 7wts with specialized streamer lines, but there are times I just like throwing lighter rods, not always because it's the most effective, but because it's fun (lots of fun) to experiment, that is all. That pretty much sums up why I fish, because it's fun.
Cheers


on a semi related topic but not entirely...

When you're fishing the "D" have you ever had much luck on streamers with the trout? The whitefish seem to like meat but I haven't caught many trout on streamers there - they all fall to bugs. I haven't fished it in a while though.

The fish on the Santiams and the coastal fish are all much more playful when it comes to eating something big it seems.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:44 pm • # 13 
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I recommend checking out the ultra short Skagit heads for comfortably casting larger streamers and bugs on a 2wt and 3wt single hand rod.

My TFO Finesse and Sage Circa rods in 2wt & 3wt will easily cast a size 2 Zoo Cougar 40-50ft.

Both RIO and OPST (made by RIO) have 11ft-12ft heads that match up very nicely with the light wt rods.

Regards,
FK


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:16 pm • # 14 
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I got hold of some size 18 streamer hooks (really!). I make my go-to streamer, the Spruce fly, and fish those with my little 6'6" 2-weight.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:09 pm • # 15 
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weiliwen wrote:
I got hold of some size 18 streamer hooks (really!). I make my go-to streamer, the Spruce fly, and fish those with my little 6'6" 2-weight.


Those sound pretty cool - any chance you can get some pictures? How long do the flies wind up being - half an inch? Three quarters? They must make a pretty good hatchling imitation.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:15 am • # 16 
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fkrow wrote:
I recommend checking out the ultra short Skagit heads for comfortably casting larger streamers and bugs on a 2wt and 3wt single hand rod.

My TFO Finesse and Sage Circa rods in 2wt & 3wt will easily cast a size 2 Zoo Cougar 40-50ft.

Both RIO and OPST (made by RIO) have 11ft-12ft heads that match up very nicely with the light wt rods.

Regards,
FK


Thanks, I actually made some of my own from a couple of old 11 and 12wt fly lines in both floating and intermediate. I can't wait to try them out, but if it's any indication, the one I made for my 8wt SH rod, these will really sing with tips. Who knew that calipers, braided loops and a scale would come in so handy...ha!


weiliwen wrote:
I got hold of some size 18 streamer hooks (really!). I make my go-to streamer, the Spruce fly, and fish those with my little 6'6" 2-weight.


I'd love to see those when you get a few tied up. That sounds really cool...not something I'd really enjoy tying up, but something I'd certainly enjoy fishing on some of those tiny little mountain streams. The Spruce (albeit, a bit larger than 18) is my goto for SRCs....love that fly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:11 pm • # 17 
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To get this topic back in play, and because I've been doing a lot of it lately, I use a Teeney BS-100 (Basic sink 100 gr.) on my 2-4 weights. 10 foot sinking head on running line, casts well and in tight areas just roll cast it up to the surface and then roll cast again. I use unweighted streamers as the line will get the fly down and the lack of weight imparts more movement. Favorites are briminators and cat's whiskers on 3x 12's as they ride point up and I don't snag as much. This is warmwater fishing, btw.

I've also started fishing 3X 14 to 16 thunder creeks tied with schlappen and the head finished off with UV resin. These aren't particularly heavy, but they do sink and seem to work well when the fish are holding mid level in the water column of small streams. I'll fish those on a floating line and let the leader and tippet determine depth. I don't have any rods below two weight, but these are real easy to tie, cast, and fish and would likely work on lighter than 2 weight.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:11 pm • # 18 
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mdwwhw,

Thanks for the post,, I have seen the Teeney BS-100 lines in our local fly shop.
First report on using them with UL fly rods.

Regards,
FK


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