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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:54 am • # 1 
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Mother Nature provided birds with feathers and wings so they can possibly escape danger by flying away.

She provided fish with fins so they can swim fast for cover.

She provided the turtle with a shell to hide in.

She made deer, squirrels and rabbits fleet on their feet.

She gave carnivores fangs and claws.

She taught the mouse and vole to dig and hide in a hole.

She did all these things to wild creatures and yet they still become lunch.

However, she gave me none of these traits.  I am not fleet.  I cannot fly.  My shell is really soft.  While I can swim, I can't keep up with a fish.  My fangs and claws are not long enough protect me much.  I have no chance to defend myself when I enter the food chain....so I must carry a gun.

Image
Fishing Rock Creek, Idaho with my 45 cal bear swatter on my hip


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:47 am • # 2 
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....because there is really no effective replacement if you need one? Don


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:35 pm • # 3 
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I started carrying one, legally, while urban fishing after a couple uncomfortable encounters with other kinds of predators.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:51 pm • # 4 
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In this day and age, I think it may be a good idea to carry in some locations, even ones without bears. One should do so legally of course. I still haven't applied for a carry permit so I don't carry at all. If I fish somewhere other than home, I tend to take a large tactical folding knife.

There has been an increase of crime around our local reservoirs this year, no doubt due to the crappy economy. Who knows when it will go from vehicle break ins to armed robbery on the lakes.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:43 am • # 5 
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Location: Israel Tel-Aviv, Canada Toronto, UK London.
I have my reasons to not carry weapons(gun in this case) on me, and one of these reasons is that this gun can used against yourself .
We have no predators in my country. :)
But you know, it's me, i'm in army twice in year (for last 10 years + 3 years regular service) .
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:16 am • # 6 
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we started pack'n when my friend Jamie Paxton was murdered by serial killer Dillon ..
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dillon,_Thomas

i have been touched by a killer ..i carry and i don't need a permit to do it ..and don't preach to me about a permit ..if you been through it like me you would understand ..
i'm done with this topic ...



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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:51 pm • # 7 
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steve wrote:
I have my reasons to not carry weapons(gun in this case) on me, and one of these reasons is that this gun can used against yourself .
We have no predators in my country. :)
But you know, it's me, i'm in army twice in year (for last 10 years + 3 years regular service) .
Hi Steve,

All cultures/countries seem to have differing views on this and the criminal element isn't identical in every locale.  In Texas there are almost 400K concealed permit holders, in Florida over 1 million.  Both state are watched very closely because of the large number of permit holders.  Contrary to what the media predicted prior to concealed permit laws taking effect in both states, there was never a rise in crime due to more armed citizens and despite their other predictions there was not a spike of these newly armed citizens being involved in road rage or other violent incidents: the number of permit holders in Texas arrested for any kind of felony stays around 0.25% or 1/4 of 1% of all permit holders.

Because by law the weapons must be concealed they are not visible to a potential assailant and therefore not a target.  There is a very interesting book titled "More Guns, Less Crime" that exhaustively studies the effects of concealed license laws around the USA.  It can be very dry reading but it covers a wide variety of topics including the way gun crimes are reported and *every* case or statistic has a footnote attached giving the source.  It also heavily documents the cases in which guns were used to prevent crime but that use was never reported in the mainstream media.  

Here's a great example.  It's long so I won't reprint it but here's the link: http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott14.html

Pay special attention to the shooting at the Virginia Law School which was stopped by two students who retrieved guns from their cars.  The story was reported in 208 separate news stories but only 4 mention that the shooting was stopped by armed students.

I'm more liberal than most of my acquaintances here in Texas, but I get pretty ticked when I see how this stuff is reported, and how it seems to be the goal of the media to create enough fear in the public to keep them from arming themselves for protection.  They are very effective.

BTW, when I took my concealed carry training in a class of 8 people 4 had been the victims of violent crime.  One young lady who was still frightened of guns had been the victim of the sexual assault while walking from her car to the apartment building.  A lady co-teaching the class worked closely with this young lady to help her pick out a purse that would allow her to carry and shoot through her purse if necessary.  The lady had used mace the first time with no effect and was determined to get one with her life.  Another elderly gentleman was there because his next door neighbor--also an elderly guy and a Korean War vet had been murdered in a home invasion a couple of months earlier.

I live in a nice low-crime area but the instances of home-invasions and car-jackings have risen noticeably over the past few years and crime works its way north from Dallas.  I also believe that assuming the bad guy will have more compassion for me or my family if I'm *not* armed is a very bad assumption.

Here's a little more reading:  
 

Police nationwide stand behind Second Amendment Rights

"In a recent poll, 85 percent of our 1,352 members favored right-to-carry."

Quote:

Sgt. John J. Johnson, president,
St. Louis Police Officers Association

"I lobbied against the (concealed carry) law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesaled armed conflict. That hasn’t happened. All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn’t happen. No bogeyman. I think it has worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I’m a convert."

Quote:

Glenn White, president, Dallas Police Association

"From a law enforcement perspective, the licensing process has not resulted in problems in the community from people arming themselves with concealed weapons."

Quote:

Commissioner James T. Moore,
Florida Department of Law Enforcement

"Some of the public safety concerns (over right-to-carry) which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated."

Quote:

Police Major Bill Brown,
Fairfax County, Virginia

"The facts are in and the record is clear: right-to-carry gives law enforcement, their families and our communities real protection from violent criminals.

Quote:

James J. Fortis, executive director,
Law Enforcement Alliance of America

"None of our concerns have been borne out."

Quote:

Hazard police Chief Rod Maggard, president,
Kentucky Chiefs of Police Association

"Critics of concealed carry argued that law-abiding citizens couldn’t be trusted with a concealed weapon. But now the facts speak for themselves – the law is working."

Quote:

Sherif David Williams
Tarrant County, Texas

"Anyone who believes a self-protection firearm is not a deterrent to crime is simply being unrealistic...I’ve not seen any problems with concealed carry, either legal problems or inappropriate behavior, during the four years we’ve had a concealed carry law in our state."

Quote:

Lt. Bill Booth
Oklahoma City PD

''The more good guys there are out there with guns, the safer everybody is, including police officers. Police officials are telling outrageous lies when they say they fear blood running in the streets (because of concealed weapons). They know crime rates have dropped in states that permit concealed weapons.''

Quote:

Lt. Harry Thomas
Cincinnati PD, Retired



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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:56 pm • # 8 
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tinknocker1 wrote:

we started pack'n when my friend Jamie Paxton was murdered by serial killer Dillon ..
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dillon,_Thomas

i have been touched by a killer ..i carry and i don't need a permit to do it ..and don't preach to me about a permit ..if you been through it like me you would understand ..
i'm done with this topic ...

I know more people who carry without a permit than *with* a permit.  I think it's a right we shouldn't have to be licensed for, but until it is I'll continue to get gouged for the training and permit fee.  In my line of work they may not always check your resume contacts but they will *always* do a criminal background check and *any* felony conviction *will* immediately eliminate you from consideration or get you fired if they already hired you. 

If I were to get pulled over and cited for any kind of illegal firearm related charge then I would have to choose a new line of work.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:46 pm • # 9 
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Andy, I remember Dillon, I guess I don't blame you.

J.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:55 pm • # 10 
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As do I ....my friends and I stopped hunting in Ohio that season....used to hunt the old strip pits and the fruit farm on 250..


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:17 pm • # 11 
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I didn't mean to start a 2nd amendment war.  I carry only in the woods.  This is the likely place that I might fall victim to foul play either by a bear, wolf or big cat...or maybe a drug dealer (pot farm).  These are situations where you could NOT negotiate yourself out of.  Then you need a gun.  Even then, your chances are slim...but slim is better than zero.

I do not pack in town.  If someone wants my wallet, I will give it to them.  It's not worth the 100's of thousands it's going to cost you in legal fees to defend yourself.  I just try to use common sense, where I park, how late I stay out, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:40 pm • # 12 
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David Gale wrote:
I didn't mean to start a 2nd amendment war.  I carry only in the woods.
No prob David.  Each situation is different.  Here it seems to be safer in the woods than fishing in town.   7 or 8 years ago while we were still in Austin an old man was murdered at one of my favorite fishing holes.  15 minutes from the house, sitting on the bank fishing for cats, 3 gang members pulled in and blew him away.  They caught the kids and they said they were just bored.

Had a case here in Dallas last year.  Les might be able to remember the details because it happened over towards Grand Prairie or Arlington.  A couple more gang member jumped two guys coming out of a church--one was a youth minister.  Killed them both.  They caught the guys right away and on the news camera one of them admitted to having decided *before* leaving the house that he was going to "pop" someone that night.    The news lady asked him about the families of the guys he killed and the gang member's reply was f*** 'em. 

Unfortunately, in some parts of the country, just handing over your wallet doesn't guarantee anything.  Now I'm not a trained law enforcement officer so my first response is *always* going to be get the heck out of the situation if possible.  Fortunately, that worked the last couple times I found myself in that situation while fishing, but it might not always work, hence my desire for a backup plan.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:57 pm • # 13 
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I have found myself in 2 uncomfortable positions this year...both had the hair on the back of my neck on ends...I need to carry, I just do not have anything small to do so...and the fixed blade knife I carry is better than nothing I suppose...but, that is close quarter stuff and would rather not be in that situation...of course I would not want to be in any situation but, the world has changed and I must change with it....and that makes me sad:(


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:31 am • # 14 
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Rob, probably half of all defensive shootings happen at a range of Contact distance to 3 feet. It's going to be up close and personal no matter what most times. Train accordingly.

J.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:15 am • # 15 
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My good friend and main fishing buddy carries with permit. We've never had any run-ins here in MO but I DO feel safer with him than when I fish alone. I'd be interested in getting a permit to carry but am not in a financial position to pursue that right now.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:26 pm • # 16 
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I don't carry mostly because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be willing or able to pull the trigger. Truth is that we are never really safe. A man from my church was shot delivering bread to a convenience store. Even if he had a permit to carry, he wouldn't be allowed to carry a weapon then. I may be a fool or naive (or both), but I leave my life in the hands of another. He is our shield and protector, our ever-present help in time of need, wonderful counselor and prince of peace. A gun isn't going to change that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:13 pm • # 17 
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swalker,

Thx for your comments.  We all approach life differently.  I to have little plan and desire to take the life of another human bean....but in some situations, such as a drug dealer or drugged up wacko gone bad, I don't want to live with the fact that one of my family members or some other passerby lost their life and I might have been able to do something about it.

All this aside, the real intent of my post was to state that I don't want to end up becoming 'bear poop'!  In a bad situation with a bear, I may or may not be able to defend myeslf but in such a situation, if I had no gun at all, I have no chance.  I would rather have a slim chance than no chance.

Dave


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:31 pm • # 18 
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David Gale wrote:
In a bad situation with a bear, I may or may not be able to defend myeslf but in such a situation, if I had no gun at all, I have no chance.  I would rather have a slim chance than no chance.
Given the choice of facing an armed, whacked out druggie attempting to mug me, or a bear attempting to eat me, I think I would have to choose the druggie Image

'course down here you can get eaten by fire ants but they take smaller bites and don't give you the urge to soil yourself when you see them Image  You guys that regularly fish in bear country have a certain fortitude that some of us other folks might not have to display very often.

Then again I've known a few Canadians who pretty much scoffed at the bears but who displayed a great respect for moose Image


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:42 pm • # 19 
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Moose can be bad.  I had a particularly memorable experience once with a rutting bull moose while hunting ducks back in 2000.  I was not sure if the moose wanted to pound me into the mud....or hump my leg.  I was terrified for those few minutes of stand off. 

Three years ago while fishing Rock Creek in the Targhee Nat. Forest not far from Yellowstone Park (about 100 yards from where this photo was taken:)  This is the trail I kike up for half a mile...then I have to leave the trail and get into the forest to get to some great Brookie fishing.
Image

A med sized Grizz bounded across the trail in front of me.  The encounter startled both of us and the Grizz ran off for about 50 feet as if to run away from me....then I guess he remembered he was higher up the food chain than a fly fisherman and stopped to turn to look me over.  He must have been a teenage grizz as he huffed and puffed and made a weird gurgling sound as he paralleled me some 30 yards away.   I had my Guide gun in 450 Marlin with me and I had the sights on him the whole time.  I always take the gun off my shoulder when I get to the thick stuff when walking through this area.  To tell the truth, I was honored to be so close o such a magnificent beast. 

There is another Grizz in this area and we see his tracks nearly every trip...in early spring or late fall when the Haw Berries and Service Berries are on.  He has a 7" front track which puts him in the same class size wise as an Alaskan Grizz.  I have yet to see him but he is there all the time when I fish that stretch of Rock Creek.

My Dad (who just had a stroke a couple months ago) when hiking up there this week to look Rock Creek over as it opens this Sat.  He said he saw his tracks all over in the melting snow.  That bear is there!  I hope I never have to shoot a bear.  But I don't want to die either.  I doubt this bear will ever cause me harm.  I have never seen him in all the times I have been there.  But that young 'whipper snapper' grizz I saw might give me grief some day.

Here are more photos of that creek I fish and the bear habitat:
Image
This is pretty close to where I saw the bear.  Good fishing here.  Real UL fly rod country.

Image
This brookie pool is one mile in off the road.  My Dad is content to sit and watch.  He fishes for a few minutes but seems happy to just watch for animals.  He usually carries my 450 Marlin and I pack my handgun.

Image

Image

Ya'll make a trip someday.  I will play guide.  Sept to Oct is best.  This makes for unforgettable fishing.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:01 pm • # 20 
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robgcp wrote:
I need to carry, I just do not have anything small to do so...and the fixed blade knife I carry is better than nothing I suppose
the world has changed and I must change with it....and that makes me sad:(
Rob,
I carry a LCP Ruger 38. The LCP stands for Light..... Compact..... Pistol. Only a couple ounces and so small you can pack it in any fishing vest pocket! You can purchase them for under $350 now.
A couple years ago I was walking back to my car after dark on a solo trip in a remote area. A "wacked out" guy asked me if I would give him some money to buy some cigarettes. I'm a fit guy at 6'4" and a good fighter, but a drugged up sicko would kill me if he got the chance. I told the a-hole to wait there and I would get my wallet from my car. I slammed the door and sped off....... he banged my window. Now I could have beat him up and tossed him in the water, or just ran over him, but why should I have to put up with that? He would sue me....... or dent my car!! The only solution is to make him turtle food.
All guns have to be registered now, but all the guys I know don't register to carry. Most think it's the government's way to know who has a gun so they can take it back.
There would never be any school shootings near me....... or any bus, store, or any shootings!!! You would just read about a couple dead robbers and no one knew who shot them.
The guy who said "you need thousands of dollars to defend against killing a robber" LOL if he is dead, he can't testify against you!
I'm very Spiritual, but not at all Religious.
Defend yourself, Rob, it's what God wants you to do. I enjoy chatting with you in the Chat Room. And don't be afraid to go fishing in remote areas, that's where all the fish are at.
Now back to the "Death Wish" movie!!


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