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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:59 am • # 21 
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David Gale wrote:
swalker,

Thx for your comments.  We all approach life differently.  I to have little plan and desire to take the life of another human bean....but in some situations, such as a drug dealer or drugged up wacko gone bad, I don't want to live with the fact that one of my family members or some other passerby lost their life and I might have been able to do something about it.

All this aside, the real intent of my post was to state that I don't want to end up becoming 'bear poop'!  In a bad situation with a bear, I may or may not be able to defend myeslf but in such a situation, if I had no gun at all, I have no chance.  I would rather have a slim chance than no chance.

Dave
If I were in bear/lion country more often, I may have a different opinion. Who knows?


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:09 am • # 22 
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FTR, I have no issue with people packing heat. I happen to think that bans on assault weapons are unconstitutional. It appears that the intent of the amendment is to allow the citizenry to form a militia against the government if the citizenry feels as though tyrannical rule is on the horizon. In order for a militia to be effective against the US government, it would need far more fire power than hand guns and deer rifles. okay, so I'm a little nuts on top of being a fool and naive.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:30 am • # 23 
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If I was in a situation where someone had the intent to do serious bodily harm to me or my family then the choice is clear, STOP THE THREAT! I've been in a situation before when I needed and had a handgun at hand. Armed intervention by me towards the threat was literally seconds away, when a neighbor came out of their house and started yelling about all the noise the perp was making. That seemed to scare him and he took off. My front door was nearly kicked in, the frame cracked. A couple more kicks and the guy would have been through. I was at the ready, and would have done what I had to do, there wouldn't have been a second thought, nor any hesitation on my part. No nagging conscience, nor a feeling of guilt.

In a situation like that, one needs to be indifferent, and not hesitate. There is time for thinking after the shooting is done. I'm glad I had handgun training in the Police academy, it was very basic stuff, but helps with skills none the less. I also practiced drills on my own time for many years.

If you chicken out or hesitate at all in an armed confrontation you will die, or at the minimum get wounded. There is no guarantee that if you take on a threat, that you will walk away from it either. That's the risk you take, but I'll take the risk of resisting rather than being an easy target for a perp. In my opinion, if you have a family and you end up in a situation, then you have a responsibility to protect them from harm. If you stand by and do absolutely nothing because your scared or leaving it up to "God", and your family is murdered for nothing more than crack money, then you yourself deserve to die. That last statement may offend some, but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

J.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:46 am • # 24 
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I don't think anyone is saying leave it up to God and do nothing. Not carrying a gun doesn't mean you're not going to defend yourself in some other manner, and it's possible to avoid a lot of ugly situations altogether if you're smart and careful.

I understand that there are some who would rather give up their life than take the life of someone else, and I respect that belief without agreeing with it. Fortunately, those usually aren't the only two options and it is possible to get out of some pretty bad situations with no one dying.

I prefer to have a permit to carry but it's a very personal choice and I understand that there are a lot of people who don't agree with carrying although they *do* agree that we should have the choice to do so if we desire.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:12 am • # 25 
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People, people!  This post was about shooting angry bears...not people. 


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:47 am • # 26 
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back to bears...There really aren't many bears in Burleson, Texas (other than Baylor grads--and can they really be trusted anymore than a grizzly). I've thought that a snake gun might be a good idea, other than I probably won't kill it, and then I have an angry cottonmouth. The few times I've been in bear country, I've had bears come into camp, and knuckle-heads shooting at them (or at least firing off guns at them) in the midst of 100 other campers. But in spite of that, I think the mountain lions are more frightening to me. I know there are exceptions, but bears don't seem to think of us as being on their food chain. Sure, a hungry bear will do desperate things. But, for the most part, bears leave us alone unless they feel threatened by us--which could be quite unpredictable. Mountain lions, on the other hand, see us as an easy meal. And they aren't going to make themselves known until they are ready.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 1:18 pm • # 27 
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Alas in California the back trails are often not safe from two legged critters, out to plunder what your carrying in alot of our premium out back areas. Facing facts, my backpack with sleeping gear etc and my fly rod and reel most likely has a new replacement cost value of near $2K sometimes more. As such and having come face to face with some of these critters on several occasions, even in one of the main camp areas of a major US National park campsite, I carry, often in the lower 48 where big bears are not an issue, A colts Gold Cup 45, if things that bite are there in the lower 48 then a 44 mag revolver, if in Alaska, I carry a Navy Seal Ithica 12 Gauge shotgun with soft rubber pistal grip, 18 inch barrel, and shoulder sling, #1 is 00 buckshot, #2 and #3 are burniky slugs, the nest another buckshot and the final round another slug, only time Ive ever used it was a couple of times the buckshot went in the air to get the attention of a brown bear getting to close.
Yes I carry and yes I would use a gun to protect myself and those with me if necessary. Im a Vietnam Veteran, Ive been shot and Ive shot men, and I would protect myself and those with me if no other option was available, man or beast! Just the way it is!
Richard


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 1:38 pm • # 28 
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It's funny to read through this thread.  Swalker, You mentioned having bears come into camp and bozos out there shooting their guns trying to scare them off.  This is unfortunate.  I feel our gun laws are in more jeopardy from gun owners themselves than national lawmakers.  But that is for another discussion.

When I lived in Nebraska, Grizzlies were rare.  The only one I ever saw there was in Cabelas and he was stuffed.  I carried a 22 revolver.  There was feral dogs there and I think they are worse than any bear.  They are becoming a problem here in Idaho too.  I guess I carry so there is a chance, however so slight, that I don't become a victim. 

I got my CCW permit so I can carry and nobody needs to see it on my body.  May God grant me my one wish....that I never have to use it other than shooting at a target.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:50 pm • # 29 
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David Gale wrote:
Moose can be bad.  I had a particularly memorable experience once with a rutting bull moose while hunting ducks back in 2000.  I was not sure if the moose wanted to pound me into the mud....or hump my leg.  I was terrified for those few minutes of stand off. 

Three years ago while fishing Rock Creek in the Targhee Nat. Forest not far from Yellowstone Park (about 100 yards from where this photo was taken:)  This is the trail I kike up for half a mile...then I have to leave the trail and get into the forest to get to some great Brookie fishing.
Image

A med sized Grizz bounded across the trail in front of me.  The encounter startled both of us and the Grizz ran off for about 50 feet as if to run away from me....then I guess he remembered he was higher up the food chain than a fly fisherman and stopped to turn to look me over.  He must have been a teenage grizz as he huffed and puffed and made a weird gurgling sound as he paralleled me some 30 yards away.   I had my Guide gun in 450 Marlin with me and I had the sights on him the whole time.  I always take the gun off my shoulder when I get to the thick stuff when walking through this area.  To tell the truth, I was honored to be so close o such a magnificent beast. 

There is another Grizz in this area and we see his tracks nearly every trip...in early spring or late fall when the Haw Berries and Service Berries are on.  He has a 7" front track which puts him in the same class size wise as an Alaskan Grizz.  I have yet to see him but he is there all the time when I fish that stretch of Rock Creek.

My Dad (who just had a stroke a couple months ago) when hiking up there this week to look Rock Creek over as it opens this Sat.  He said he saw his tracks all over in the melting snow.  That bear is there!  I hope I never have to shoot a bear.  But I don't want to die either.  I doubt this bear will ever cause me harm.  I have never seen him in all the times I have been there.  But that young 'whipper snapper' grizz I saw might give me grief some day.

Here are more photos of that creek I fish and the bear habitat:
Image
This is pretty close to where I saw the bear.  Good fishing here.  Real UL fly rod country.

Image
This brookie pool is one mile in off the road.  My Dad is content to sit and watch.  He fishes for a few minutes but seems happy to just watch for animals.  He usually carries my 450 Marlin and I pack my handgun.

Image

Image

Ya'll make a trip someday.  I will play guide.  Sept to Oct is best.  This makes for unforgettable fishing.


David what blank did you use on this rod your using ?


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 3:24 pm • # 30 
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Ask Zenkoanhead.  He built the rod for me.  It is a 4pc 4'8" graphite rod that is rated around 0000wt if they made a line that small.  The reel is a Dennison Fly Light 1 oz reel.  It holds a bit of backing and half a Sage QDT 000 line.

I have used both 30# backing that is varnished and half a QDT Sage 000 line.  The 000 line over lines it a bit and you have to be careful.  The 30# varnished backing is perfect but difficult to roll cast with.  Either way, it is the ultimate in stealth for a small brookie rod.

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by Anonymous on Sat May 22, 2010 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:05 pm • # 31 
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very nice David ..
i would like to wade into a bed of lake gills and start picking them off with that little jewel ...


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:51 pm • # 32 
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This has been a very interesting and thought provoking thread (in a good way). I had a good conversation about this last night with my fishing buddy and feel that I may pursue a CCW license. My main reason is that I have had a tendency to have run in's with animals. I've been chased by javelinas, bulls, elk, whitetails, snakes and probably other animals that I wasn't aware of. I may feel more confident when it comes to animal confrontations, especially when I'm wet wading and a big ole moccasin comes my way.
My second reason is that I live in a 'the hood' area of St. Louis and hear gunshots a few times a week though we feel safe where we are. I know we're not immune from personal attacks of the two legged kind and would like to be prepared if something were to happen. I can handle myself well in a non-weapon sort of confrontation but these days with people as desperate as they are, my typical picket knife won't do and I want to make sure my family is safe.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:58 pm • # 33 
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I have my doubts.
Maybe i'm not understand something, from your post seems that all of you lives in wild wild west.
It's illusion that you feel safety with gun on you especially with family, kinds and at home.
Most of regular public training programs are not effective.(except army or police)
Some maniac will not going to face to face confrontation , he will shoot you in the back while you are wading or tracking in a wood.
I doubt that your guns will stop a bear or moose attacking(but can kick it away), and probably you will miss a target in real situation.
If you must , so care a hunting rifle in right places.
P.S.IMHO.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:15 am • # 34 
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This is how I deal with bears in the wild.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2fLyZfaaZs

May have to cut and paste.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:04 am • # 35 
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steve wrote:
I have my doubts.
Maybe i'm not understand something, from your post seems that all of you lives in wild wild west.

"Gun-control advocates look at guns only as a means to harm others even though they are more often used to prevent injury. According to a 1995 study entitled “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gunâ€



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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:57 am • # 36 
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Well you guys know my thoughts on this matter.......








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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:02 am • # 37 
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Quote:

steve wrote:

Most of regular public training programs are not effective.(except army or police)










��


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:22 am • # 38 
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Neat vid!! That's why a lot of folks don't pay for a CCW permit!
Our cops in action!! LOL


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:28 am • # 39 
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Sasha wrote:
Quote:

steve wrote:

Most of regular public training programs are not effective.(except army or police)










��

I feel really bad for the cop in the video.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:44 am • # 40 
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jdub wrote:
steve wrote:
I have my doubts.
Maybe i'm not understand something, from your post seems that all of you lives in wild wild west.

"Gun-control advocates look at guns only as a means to harm others even though they are more often used to prevent injury. According to a 1995 study entitled “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gunâ€



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