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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:57 pm • # 21 
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Posts: 287
hipshot wrote:
Hey y'all, I'm new to the forum so I'm browsing old threads as I find the time. I know this one is old, but I felt that something needed to be stated here. I saw a post from a 'non-gun person', and I always get a bad feeling about such folks reading misinformation and mistaking it for gospel.

One poster admonished us about light triggers. He used a flawed rationale to justify his post, and I feel that it should be corrected. I think I'm qualified to call foul on this; I'm a life-long firearms enthusiast (I used to say 'gun nut', but thanks to our society allowing a bunch of reality-challenged retards to dictate political correctness to us, that term now has a sinister connotation), a working 30-year cop, a sniper, a firearms instructor, and a military combat veteran. I don't just spout some BS the latest fashionable 'gunwriter of the month' scratched out to meet a deadline for some magazine.

Firearms are serious tools. They are also huge fun. Like anything that can be inherently dangerous, they need to be used responsibly. That's just common sense. However, common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon. When I was growing up most fathers who passed firearms on to their children understood their responsibility to instill the basic rules of safe marksmanship, firearms handling, and maintenance. Any more......... not so much. Now we tend more and more to rely on "experts" to tell us what is proper. We allow lawsuit-hungry attorneys to dictate standards (read the barrel on your Ruger). We accept the babblings of media "experts" who obviously don't know a bolt from a barrel, as they lecture us on national television about the evils of whatever firearms, or class of firearms, their agenda demands that they villify.

All of this progun / antigun debate, with proponents from both sides of the issue perfectly willing to lie, or use data out of context, has left the folks in the middle, the "neutral on the issue" folks, baffled and often misinformed. It's also opened the door to a whole lot of unqualified "experts" to start charging folks money to provide "expert training". Some of this "expert training" is so outrageous, so dangerous, and so utterly stupid, that it's hard not to laugh when you listen to some of these "tactical gods" pontificate about weapons and wars. But it's being taught, and we really should try to correct the misinformed. We need to base our decisions on truth, not lies. And yet the believers who follow some of these sham "experts" are sometimes ready to fight to protect their new heroes. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. I recently read the claims of one who advertises his training nationally; he'd have to be 200 years old if 1/4 of the BS he claims to have done in the military and in law enforcement was true. But he has a following of civilian "tactical experts" who trained under him and worship him. It's like a cult.....

Anyway, because of people like this there is a lot of misinformation being passed out as expert instruction. Light triggers are one of those myths. Now, I wouldn't want a "whisper trigger" on a carry gun. But a 3 1/2 lb. trigger on a Glock is not a whisper trigger, and it's no more dangerous than a 12 pound trigger. Two days ago I was on the range and one of our officers had just had a 3 1/2 pound trigger installed on his Glock .45. I tried it out; it was certainly an improvement over the original trigger, but it felt in no way too light or unsafe. Like any other firearm, proper use dictates that one keep his / her finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Not difficult. With proper training, it occurs involuntarily. Here's a true story: a part-time officer I used to know was out shopping with his family. He witnessed a robbery (the turd knocked down an old lady and grabbed her purse). The officer gave foot pursuit. He had drawn his weapon, a box-stock K-Frame revolver, and was chasing the crook through the shopping center with his finger on the trigger. He tripped, and fired his weapon. Fortunately he missed all of the innocent bystanders. Is that 12 lb. (give or take) double-action trigger unsafe? Absolutely not -- for a competent firearms handler who would have been running with his trigger finger indexed on the frame. For that officer in the scenario -- no firearm is safe; he shouldn't be carrying one. And he's not any more.......

If one is going to go forth armed (and in today's society, doing so is highly recommended), one has a responsibility to learn the proper protocols for safe handling. And part of that responsibility involves separating fact from fiction, so people can base their decisions on truths, rather than PC babble. Merely considering all of the factors from a common sense point of view would refute much of the misinformation being spread, if people would stop to do so. I'm sure Big Mike64 meant well, and I mean him no disrespect, but he's been misinformed. Hopefully, he's learned something here and will correct his thinking on the matter. He's welcome to use any trigger he likes, but so are the rest of us. Again, these decisions should be based on truths, not misinformation.

Sorry if I came off as a ranter, but firearms ownership is a big deal with me, and I hate seeing misinformation going unchallenged with so many legislators working to disarm the country.


:applause :applause :applause


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:33 am • # 22 
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Joined: 05/10/09
Posts: 2184
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hipshot wrote:
Hey y'all, I'm new to the forum so I'm browsing old threads as I find the time. I know this one is old, but I felt that something needed to be stated here. I saw a post from a 'non-gun person', and I always get a bad feeling about such folks reading misinformation and mistaking it for gospel.

One poster admonished us about light triggers. He used a flawed rationale to justify his post, and I feel that it should be corrected. I think I'm qualified to call foul on this; I'm a life-long firearms enthusiast (I used to say 'gun nut', but thanks to our society allowing a bunch of reality-challenged retards to dictate political correctness to us, that term now has a sinister connotation), a working 30-year cop, a sniper, a firearms instructor, and a military combat veteran. I don't just spout some BS the latest fashionable 'gunwriter of the month' scratched out to meet a deadline for some magazine.

Firearms are serious tools. They are also huge fun. Like anything that can be inherently dangerous, they need to be used responsibly. That's just common sense. However, common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon. When I was growing up most fathers who passed firearms on to their children understood their responsibility to instill the basic rules of safe marksmanship, firearms handling, and maintenance. Any more......... not so much. Now we tend more and more to rely on "experts" to tell us what is proper. We allow lawsuit-hungry attorneys to dictate standards (read the barrel on your Ruger). We accept the babblings of media "experts" who obviously don't know a bolt from a barrel, as they lecture us on national television about the evils of whatever firearms, or class of firearms, their agenda demands that they villify.

All of this progun / antigun debate, with proponents from both sides of the issue perfectly willing to lie, or use data out of context, has left the folks in the middle, the "neutral on the issue" folks, baffled and often misinformed. It's also opened the door to a whole lot of unqualified "experts" to start charging folks money to provide "expert training". Some of this "expert training" is so outrageous, so dangerous, and so utterly stupid, that it's hard not to laugh when you listen to some of these "tactical gods" pontificate about weapons and wars. But it's being taught, and we really should try to correct the misinformed. We need to base our decisions on truth, not lies. And yet the believers who follow some of these sham "experts" are sometimes ready to fight to protect their new heroes. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. I recently read the claims of one who advertises his training nationally; he'd have to be 200 years old if 1/4 of the BS he claims to have done in the military and in law enforcement was true. But he has a following of civilian "tactical experts" who trained under him and worship him. It's like a cult.....

Anyway, because of people like this there is a lot of misinformation being passed out as expert instruction. Light triggers are one of those myths. Now, I wouldn't want a "whisper trigger" on a carry gun. But a 3 1/2 lb. trigger on a Glock is not a whisper trigger, and it's no more dangerous than a 12 pound trigger. Two days ago I was on the range and one of our officers had just had a 3 1/2 pound trigger installed on his Glock .45. I tried it out; it was certainly an improvement over the original trigger, but it felt in no way too light or unsafe. Like any other firearm, proper use dictates that one keep his / her finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Not difficult. With proper training, it occurs involuntarily. Here's a true story: a part-time officer I used to know was out shopping with his family. He witnessed a robbery (the turd knocked down an old lady and grabbed her purse). The officer gave foot pursuit. He had drawn his weapon, a box-stock K-Frame revolver, and was chasing the crook through the shopping center with his finger on the trigger. He tripped, and fired his weapon. Fortunately he missed all of the innocent bystanders. Is that 12 lb. (give or take) double-action trigger unsafe? Absolutely not -- for a competent firearms handler who would have been running with his trigger finger indexed on the frame. For that officer in the scenario -- no firearm is safe; he shouldn't be carrying one. And he's not any more.......

If one is going to go forth armed (and in today's society, doing so is highly recommended), one has a responsibility to learn the proper protocols for safe handling. And part of that responsibility involves separating fact from fiction, so people can base their decisions on truths, rather than PC babble. Merely considering all of the factors from a common sense point of view would refute much of the misinformation being spread, if people would stop to do so. I'm sure Big Mike64 meant well, and I mean him no disrespect, but he's been misinformed. Hopefully, he's learned something here and will correct his thinking on the matter. He's welcome to use any trigger he likes, but so are the rest of us. Again, these decisions should be based on truths, not misinformation.

Sorry if I came off as a ranter, but firearms ownership is a big deal with me, and I hate seeing misinformation going unchallenged with so many legislators working to disarm the country.





Yup :hat


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:28 am • # 23 
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Joined: 09/12/13
Posts: 680
Location: Webb City, MO
hipshot wrote:
Hey y'all, I'm new to the forum so I'm browsing old threads as I find the time. I know this one is old, but I felt that something needed to be stated here. I saw a post from a 'non-gun person', and I always get a bad feeling about such folks reading misinformation and mistaking it for gospel.

One poster admonished us about light triggers. He used a flawed rationale to justify his post, and I feel that it should be corrected. I think I'm qualified to call foul on this; I'm a life-long firearms enthusiast (I used to say 'gun nut', but thanks to our society allowing a bunch of reality-challenged retards to dictate political correctness to us, that term now has a sinister connotation), a working 30-year cop, a sniper, a firearms instructor, and a military combat veteran. I don't just spout some BS the latest fashionable 'gunwriter of the month' scratched out to meet a deadline for some magazine.

Firearms are serious tools. They are also huge fun. Like anything that can be inherently dangerous, they need to be used responsibly. That's just common sense. However, common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon. When I was growing up most fathers who passed firearms on to their children understood their responsibility to instill the basic rules of safe marksmanship, firearms handling, and maintenance. Any more......... not so much. Now we tend more and more to rely on "experts" to tell us what is proper. We allow lawsuit-hungry attorneys to dictate standards (read the barrel on your Ruger). We accept the babblings of media "experts" who obviously don't know a bolt from a barrel, as they lecture us on national television about the evils of whatever firearms, or class of firearms, their agenda demands that they villify.

All of this progun / antigun debate, with proponents from both sides of the issue perfectly willing to lie, or use data out of context, has left the folks in the middle, the "neutral on the issue" folks, baffled and often misinformed. It's also opened the door to a whole lot of unqualified "experts" to start charging folks money to provide "expert training". Some of this "expert training" is so outrageous, so dangerous, and so utterly stupid, that it's hard not to laugh when you listen to some of these "tactical gods" pontificate about weapons and wars. But it's being taught, and we really should try to correct the misinformed. We need to base our decisions on truth, not lies. And yet the believers who follow some of these sham "experts" are sometimes ready to fight to protect their new heroes. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. I recently read the claims of one who advertises his training nationally; he'd have to be 200 years old if 1/4 of the BS he claims to have done in the military and in law enforcement was true. But he has a following of civilian "tactical experts" who trained under him and worship him. It's like a cult.....

Anyway, because of people like this there is a lot of misinformation being passed out as expert instruction. Light triggers are one of those myths. Now, I wouldn't want a "whisper trigger" on a carry gun. But a 3 1/2 lb. trigger on a Glock is not a whisper trigger, and it's no more dangerous than a 12 pound trigger. Two days ago I was on the range and one of our officers had just had a 3 1/2 pound trigger installed on his Glock .45. I tried it out; it was certainly an improvement over the original trigger, but it felt in no way too light or unsafe. Like any other firearm, proper use dictates that one keep his / her finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Not difficult. With proper training, it occurs involuntarily. Here's a true story: a part-time officer I used to know was out shopping with his family. He witnessed a robbery (the turd knocked down an old lady and grabbed her purse). The officer gave foot pursuit. He had drawn his weapon, a box-stock K-Frame revolver, and was chasing the crook through the shopping center with his finger on the trigger. He tripped, and fired his weapon. Fortunately he missed all of the innocent bystanders. Is that 12 lb. (give or take) double-action trigger unsafe? Absolutely not -- for a competent firearms handler who would have been running with his trigger finger indexed on the frame. For that officer in the scenario -- no firearm is safe; he shouldn't be carrying one. And he's not any more.......

If one is going to go forth armed (and in today's society, doing so is highly recommended), one has a responsibility to learn the proper protocols for safe handling. And part of that responsibility involves separating fact from fiction, so people can base their decisions on truths, rather than PC babble. Merely considering all of the factors from a common sense point of view would refute much of the misinformation being spread, if people would stop to do so. I'm sure Big Mike64 meant well, and I mean him no disrespect, but he's been misinformed. Hopefully, he's learned something here and will correct his thinking on the matter. He's welcome to use any trigger he likes, but so are the rest of us. Again, these decisions should be based on truths, not misinformation.

Sorry if I came off as a ranter, but firearms ownership is a big deal with me, and I hate seeing misinformation going unchallenged with so many legislators working to disarm the country.


I live in Minnesota. I moved here from Connecticut.

I raised my boys from Kindergarten to 5th grade. I taught them to ride a bike in the school parking lot.

Horror of horrors two years ago in December when I saw the same parking lot in the national news. Sandy Hook Elementary School is where they went.

I volunteered at the school in 2000, my wife volunteered in 2000-2005. We knew the counselor Mary Sherlock who was killed. The receptionist always smiled at us every day when we signed in, she's dead. And all those children...

Had this happened in 2000 I might have been one of the victims along with both my boys. I may have lost my wife and two boys at this school. I don't know that arming the school would have made a difference.

My opinion has changed about gun control.

I'm not ranting, nor do I seek a debate, I just want people to understand that we sportsmen have multiple opinions.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:46 am • # 24 
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Joined: 02/07/14
Posts: 299
Location: New Caney, Texas
RudeDog12, I understand and respect different opinions. I feel strongly that those opinions should be based on facts, not on PC babble, or partial information offered out of context, or out and out lies. An opinion based on untruth can't be a valid opinion. And I'm not attempting to evaluate or analyze your opinion; please don't interpret this as a refute. I'm merely stating a case for the truth rather than lies and misrepresentations. Too many people are willing to ignore facts that don't support their agendas.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:29 am • # 25 
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Agreed.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:29 am • # 26 
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Location: Lorain, Ohio but can be found in fishing waters of West by God West Virginia and southern Ohio.
I see a major civil liability for the ones that want to modify their guns for lighter triggers which is in fact doesn't do a whole lot. It will only show how foolish you be at the end if you did ever had to use it. To bad I can't feel sorry for you in advance!

Carry it legally but but use your head.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:04 pm • # 27 
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lighter triggers don't do a whole lot? It got rid of my shakes trying to squeeze whatever tonnage original setting was. I can hit the same quadrant of direction I aim now. I call that responsible.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:39 am • # 28 
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Phish wrote:
I see a major civil liability for the ones that want to modify their guns for lighter triggers which is in fact doesn't do a whole lot. It will only show how foolish you be at the end if you did ever had to use it. To bad I can't feel sorry for you in advance!

Carry it legally but but use your head.




WTF are you even rambling about? Lightening a trigger does not increase liability in a self defense situation. If it is a justifiable shoot the force required to discharge the weapon is irrelevant. Any half way decent attorney could successfully argue that one. No need to feel sorry for me dude, I am quite versed on the laws of my state and I have received extensive training over the years. Sorry if my reply seems a bit blunt but ignorant posts (yes I am directly saying that your post is an ignorant one) tend to annoy me after a while. The first one came when I first posted this thread 18ish months ago and I was nice about it. This time, not so much...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:47 am • # 29 
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Sasha wrote:
Phish wrote:
I see a major civil liability for the ones that want to modify their guns for lighter triggers which is in fact doesn't do a whole lot. It will only show how foolish you be at the end if you did ever had to use it. To bad I can't feel sorry for you in advance!

Carry it legally but but use your head.




WTF are you even rambling about? Lightening a trigger does not increase liability in a self defense situation. If it is a justifiable shoot the force required to discharge the weapon is irrelevant. Any half way decent attorney could successfully argue that one. No need to feel sorry for me dude, I am quite versed on the laws of my state and I have received extensive training over the years. Sorry if my reply seems a bit blunt but ignorant posts (yes I am directly saying that your post is an ignorant one) tend to annoy me after a while. The first one came when I first posted this thread 18ish months ago and I was nice about it. This time, not so much...


Sasha you strike me as individual whom is to fun*ing stupid to understand logic when you get involved in shooting and have to explain these prosecutors and the other attorneys while you modified a gun cause it wasn't good enough! They will make you look bad no doubt but you may win that SD part but you not going to win in civil defense part! WTF is matter with you acting like a Diva?? You are the IGNORANT Dumb ****!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:20 pm • # 30 
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No need to argue the whole trigger thing, it's just like the 9mm vs 45 debate, everyone has an opinion and neither side wins the argument.

Choose what works for YOUR needs and run with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:33 pm • # 31 
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Phish wrote:
Sasha wrote:
Phish wrote:
I see a major civil liability for the ones that want to modify their guns for lighter triggers which is in fact doesn't do a whole lot. It will only show how foolish you be at the end if you did ever had to use it. To bad I can't feel sorry for you in advance!

Carry it legally but but use your head.




WTF are you even rambling about? Lightening a trigger does not increase liability in a self defense situation. If it is a justifiable shoot the force required to discharge the weapon is irrelevant. Any half way decent attorney could successfully argue that one. No need to feel sorry for me dude, I am quite versed on the laws of my state and I have received extensive training over the years. Sorry if my reply seems a bit blunt but ignorant posts (yes I am directly saying that your post is an ignorant one) tend to annoy me after a while. The first one came when I first posted this thread 18ish months ago and I was nice about it. This time, not so much...


Sasha you strike me as individual whom is to fun*ing stupid to understand logic when you get involved in shooting and have to explain these prosecutors and the other attorneys while you modified a gun cause it wasn't good enough! They will make you look bad no doubt but you may win that SD part but you not going to win in civil defense part! WTF is matter with you acting like a Diva?? You are the IGNORANT Dumb ****!



Ignorant dumb sh**??? :lol Funny I was thinking the same thing. You seem like one of these know it all douches that really doesn't know anything... Ok Mr. know it all, please site case law etc in Idaho that back up your claims. I eagerly await the results. Otherwise stop spreading FUD.

ETA: As far as not understanding logic goes... One reason that a lightened trigger-pull *may* be an issue in court is because some prosecutors have apparently tried to use that fact to imply a possible "accidental" discharge, thereby implying or even accusing the shooter of some sort of negligence.

"Did you shoot him deliberately or did you really not mean to shoot and kill him?"
"I pulled the trigger deliberately in order to stop the attack."

Problem solved.

In a case of self defense, the defendant is admitting that he intentionally fired when he was legally justified to do so. The weight of the trigger is not a relevant fact in the case.


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