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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:50 pm • # 1 
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Anyone else here getting suspicious of the .22 ammo shortage? At a local shop the other day, some of us started discussing reasons as to why the ammo shortage is seemingly over, except for .22 shells. We started to wonder if the ammo manufactures themselves have an agenda....to raise the cost of .22 ammo. For decades rimfire ammo has been fairly inexpensive. Even when the .17 ammo was first out, it was pretty inexpensive for a new product. Then 17 ammo when up, almost by 50%, even more, almost over night. People went nutz, they were really pissed. .22 ammo has been pretty inexpensive, even for high end ammo. Now they can double the cost without shooters becoming suspicious. CCI Mini Mags used to cost about 6 bucks per hundred just a couple years ago. Now, if you can find it, it costs nearly double, running about a dime a shot. I think they would like to charge even more. Even bulk packs used to cost about 10 bucks per 500/550 pack and it was what I consider to be 'crap' ammo. Now bricks when you can find it is nearly 40 bucks.

I think ammo companies have long wanted to double, even triple the the price of .22 ammo. After all, they pulled the same crap not too many years ago with most other ammo and reloading components. I recently priced some components to put together some CF ammo. It costs more to buy components to load up a 100 rounds of say 270,308 06, 243, etc, than it does to just buy factory ammo...not much more but about a buck a box or so. Why would companies do this? I am beginning to think I have as big a reason to be suspicious of Corporate America anymore as I do the Gov't. Not wanting to get into politics here and I don't think this is a political statement, but I am pretty stinking suspicious of the drive for money. Oil companies have used every excuse in the book and ones they could think of to justify what they charge anymore for gas. I mean every little blip natural or other wise is now reason to charge more. They are full of greed, why would ammo/gun companies be any less greedy? I paid 250 bucks for my Remington 270 20 years ago. The cost for the same rifle stayed under 500 bucks until very recently. Now a similar grade rifle is close to a 1000 bucks.

I guess, shooting/hunting is a rich man's sport. OK, well, they really want to be out numbered by anti gun/ anti hunters. They will at this pace. Even here in Idaho, people are disgusted with the rising cost of shooting and hunting. The anti's will win without even bringing it to a vote!


Last edited by DCG on Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:28 pm • # 2 
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Yeah, there is NO .22LR to be had around here, and when it does show up on occasion, it's gone in minutes, but there is no large or steady supply of it. It's the same in this region with most other cartridges too. While 9mm is certainly easier to find now than it was earlier in the year, there isn't a real steady supply and pricing still sucks.

It's funny, Obama gets elected (2007), there's an ammo panic, prices doubled and tripled over night, gas ($4.00 at one point) went up and stayed up, food prices are up, everything since that asshat was elected has gone up.

Then the combination of Obama's reelection and Newtown have caused the most severe ammo shortage we have seen since maybe one of the World Wars, or the Civil War.
There is the government buying a ton of ammo, but the wars in the Middle East have wound down, and the military isn't buying the same amount they were during Bush's terms and during his terms we had no ammo shortage, and prices were still reasonable. Now we also have Federal, and CCI/Speer owned by ATK, and it's all about appeasing investors when it comes to that corporate giant. Remington is owned by some corporate giant too, but I can't remember which one.

I have no real answers as to why the single most produced cartridge in the world, the .22LR, is completely unobtainium. It befuddles me to no end. I've stopped shooting .22 other than firing about 5 rounds of it this year while squirrel hunting. I'm not willing to deplete my small stash of .22 right now.

Government conspiracy? Maybe. Corporate conspiracy? Maybe. Alien intervention? I won't discount that anymore either. If your willing to spend stupid money on .22 you can buy it off of the greedy vermin scalpers on Gunbroker.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:51 pm • # 3 
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I am not normally into conspiracies, Gov't or otherwise. I grew up in a controlling religion (I've resigned from that religion) that fed off from conspiracies so I steer clear of things like this. But something sure seems to be amiss with .22 ammo shortages.

I do have one conspiracy: While many ammo/gun manufactures along with organizations such as the NRA do their level best to promote pro gun candidates, I am beginning to believe deep inside, they love the increase in profit and sales (membership, etc) that happens when an anti gun candidate wins.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:07 am • # 4 
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As an outside observer and firearms owner, I am kind of fascinated by this phenomenon, so I did a little internet digging. Seems the theories range from 'purposeful government stockpiling/limiting' to 'private stockpiling running up against production capacity/import limitations'. And at the outer edges of the 'discussion', it seems to come down to fear BY the government or fear OF the government.
My hunt provided a lot of thoughtful, insightful commentary surrounding the issue, but almost invariably, within a page or so, the whole discussion spirals off into foil hat country.
I can fully understand the frustration you must feel in this situation (both the shortage and the angst). It seems that, in the age of limitless information, the only shortages more dire than .22lr are of trust, truth and knowledge.
Here's hoping things improve in 2014.
brent


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:57 am • # 5 
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DCG your are right it is a conspiracy to jack the prices on the 22 ammo by the jack booted political thugs. I also believe the NRA is only wanting members so they go live the high life off of membership and frankly think their goals are wrong.

I can go to the larger outfitters shop and get it readily but you going to pay to **** dearly for it tho. $30-35 a 325 pack of plinking ammo is fleet out ridiculous! I heard that it will never come back down and it will be at least 3 more years until this BS settles down unless we have another mass shooting to happen before it does.

I can remember just paying a $100 for 5000 rounds 10 years ago. The facts is does not really costs them that much to make! Calling Shenanigans!!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:05 am • # 6 
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Not sure if this is helpful, but of all the opinion, insight and wingnuttery I found on the net (from both sides of the political spectrum), I found this analysis to be the most credible (imo) and seemed objectively researched.
As I said, I have no dog in this fight, so I wasn't reading with a preconceived opinion of what the 'right' answer was.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... shortages/

Brent (heck, I don't even OWN a dog...)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:35 pm • # 7 
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Disclaimer: We just can't discuss this subject without politics coming into play because politics is a big part of why this is happening. Some political commentary will be aloud in this thread, but please keep it civil. Thanks.

Lets face it, a big part of this shortage is based solely on fear. People are afraid that the Government will come and take their guns and ammunition. When Obama was first elected we had a run on ammo that lead to a shortage of some calibers, and price increases that have stayed with us since then. Serious gun owners knew all along that Obama was anti-gun, his political record showed that, but overall America didn't care. While Obama and Congress didn't do anything gun control related in his first term, there were those of us who knew without a shadow of a doubt (me included) that if elected to a second term, gun control would be an issue. I in fact do believe Newtown was manufactured by those who would have this country completely disarmed. Don't think radical gun hating people wouldn't actually do something like Newtown to further their agenda? You better think it over real hard then, because history has proven that nut jobs with an agenda will do whatever it takes to further that agenda. Look at Hitler, Stalin, and the Bolshevik Revolution.

Back to fear. There are people who freaked out, and cleared the shelves of certain guns and ammunition in matter of weeks. They are hoarding ammunition. We live in a capitalist society, and demand drives pricing. Something in high demand will always command a high price because scared fools will spend their life savings, or max out a wallet full of credit cards out of fear, and greedy people will gladly empty your wallet for you. So fear and hoarding is a big part of the problem.

The other end of the problem is sellers, whether it be your local retailer, or some douche bag on Gunbroker. There are plenty of guys waiting at Walmart every morning to try and buy up as much in demand calibers as possible, only to turn around and sell it on Gunbroker and other firearms auction sites for a huge markup. These guys are the Wall street of the gun world, despicable, greedy bastards!! They are only helping to make the situation worse. There are lots of these types out there, and they can control the flow of the product and make it seem like the shortage is worse than it really is.

I had a discussion recently with a local gun shop manager, who said that the wholesale company he buys ammo from has raised the prices of ammo significantly. Most retailers who aren't major movers of ammo have to go through a wholesale distributor for guns, ammo, and accessories because they can't afford to buy the quantities required to buy direct from the manufacturers. Some wholesale companies have jacked up prices, and may even be controlling product flow to maintain those higher prices, because if the supply goes back to normal, most folks won't pay the premium anymore. This whole year I have refused to pay high prices for ammo, and only buy from places that are charging Pre-Newtown prices. It's harder that way, but I'm not giving in to scalpers.

Our fear of losing our right to keep and bear arms is legitimate though. Gun Control laws aren't legal, but they have been passed and enforced. Just take a look at whats happening in California, Colorado, New York, and other New England States right now. Not only is the 2nd amendment being attacked in this county, but the entire bill of rights is slowly being eradicated by government. The bill of rights was put in place to let government know they can't touch any of it, but they are. We can't even rely on the Supreme Court to back up the 2nd amendment, because despite the fact that they are to be impartial politically, you can see all the time that they vote down party lines.

Will the Government ban arms and ammunition? If the balance of power slips to the far left, then yes it can, and probably will happen. Don't ever say it can't happen here, because that's what other societies have said in the past, and they got shafted for thinking that way. Banning firearms has little to do with crime control, it's more about complete control of a population with no means to stand up for itself against a heavily armed government run by a bunch of rich, greedy, power hungry fools. Do you want to be controled by a bunch of Bloombergs?

For people like me, to whom firearms are just as much about who they are as fly fishing is, then the fear is justified.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:01 pm • # 8 
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I think much of this is fear based. I do know that for months, as ammo showed up, it was gone as fast but hoarders waiting there with their credit cards. Now that most ammo is once again available, we would begin to see .22 ammo very soon.

I was in Sportsmans Warehouse the other day to get my 2014 hunting/fishing license. I saw ammo for just about everything including my 10mm, but no .22 ammo. As for the Gov't buying up ammo, I can see that in rounds such as 5.56, 308, 40 SW and 9mm, perhaps 45 acp, but .22 ammo? makes no sense. Perhaps .22 ammo has been a thorn in the sides of ammo companies for years, probably making very little or slowly going in the hole. They have been coming out with new ammo for other rimfires, high grade, etc. Maybe they have plans for new rimfire 22 ammo as well. Bulk packs are great sellers, God knows why, as I think such ammo sucks. I refuse to shoot the stuff in my of my guns. I have about a 1000 rounds of CCI Mini Mags and that is the only ammo I will run through my Remington 541S or my Browning Buckmark. I have about 4000 rounds of American Eagle but it is filthy stuff but fine for my Ruger 10-22 and my Lever Action Winchester. My son's Colt M4 22 needs high end ammo such as the CCI to function. But he is thinking of selling it to fund his bigger, more latest interest...which lie outside of guns.

I love guns and shooting/hunting. Glad I have a stash of ammo, which many out there don't have. The bad part is I am afraid to shoot much...so that which I love mostly sits. If this continues very far into the next year, I might sell off a portion of the collection to fund an upgrade on my fishing gear. I keep thinking to myself that it is a shame that I fish with imported rods and a gun collection sits. Just a couple gun sales, and I could be fishing with Orvis Rods.

I am on a rant I know. Just getting disgusted with the ammo situation. One final thought: I doubt very much that guns other than high cap semi auto handguns and rifles with ever be banned, at least in the coming decade or so. Too sticky. There are enough gun owning democrats out there to tip the scales in our favor. But what is there to stop them from either taxing, regulating or forces rationing of ammo and reloading components? Take primers out of the equation and we are dead in the water except for the ammo we own, which is likely what is driving the hoarding we are seeing. One thing about .22 I can't understand, it makes for a poor defense round. These so called doomsdayers think they will have their day of fighting against the gun grabbers, well if the fight gets close enough to be done with .22's, then it is over anyway. The fight is better fought right now with the ball point pen and internet.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:41 pm • # 9 
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I agree that bulk .22 is mostly junk. I do buy CCI Blazer bulk, as it's the best of the bulk .22 out there. It's loaded to Mini Mag velocity and the only real difference that I can tell is Blazer being a lead bullet, and Mini Mags have the copper plated bullet. QC on Mini Mags is certainly better, but Blazer QC has been leaps and bounds better than any other bulk.
I also like the buy the Wolf match ammo when I can get it for a good price (made by SK in Germany).

I've stopped buying any Remington ammo due to poor QC across the board. The exception there is probably their Premier target shotgun shells, never hand an issue with those, but I haven't bought any for probably a decade. They can keep their .22 and handgun ammo.

For hunting and target shotshells I buy Federal. I prefer Federal Premium handgun ammo for my CCW guns, and Federal American Eagle, and Champion for target shooting. I do buy the Russian Tulammo in 9mm as well, although it is really dirty stuff, it tends to shoot well.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:02 pm • # 10 
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I have always rolled my won for hunting ammo and revolver ammo for my wife's 41 and my 45 Colt. I sold my shotgun loaders years ago. I think estate shotgun ammo is pretty good for casual clay busting. My 10mm loves CCI Blazer ammo. I have two boxes left. It should return someday and I will hoard it like everyone else has been. Underwood ammo is pretty good, a bit hot for causal shooting IMHO. I save it for carry. If I order anymore from them, it will be their mild 10mm loading for Colt Delta Elites. I see no reason to run the 10mm to max. I saw HSM 10mm ammo at Sportsmans the other day for 31 bucks per 50 with is reasonable. The ammo is supposed to be decent, though slightly dirty. Not sure the ballistics. They say Winchester Sliver Tips 10mm ammo is good for CCW. I think I will buy a couple boxes for that aspect. I have a couple cases of Remington 30-06 ammo that my dad gave me along with his Remington bolt action 06. The ammo is from the 80's and I think back then, they made a good product. I remember shooting some game with them early Core Lokt Bullets and was impressed. The stuff they make now is junk.

For .22 ammo, it is CCI all the way IMO. I never shot blazer 22 ammo but I hear good things about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:53 pm • # 11 
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I'm sure that full power 10mm stuff eats recoil springs for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. I recall you bought the 135 grain loads which actually aren't ideal as a self defense round. Yeah the numbers look impressive, but that bullet was designed for .40 S&W, and even then it's not an ideal performer. At 10mm velocities that bullet will rapidly expand, and fragment, but penetrates very shallow. It does not come close to passing the FBI test for defensive ammo.

I would agree, the Delta Elite load would be a better option, from both a bullet performance perspective, and it won't beat the tar out of your gun.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:02 pm • # 12 
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"I in fact do believe Newtown was manufactured by those who would have this country completely disarmed. Don't think radical gun hating people wouldn't actually do something like Newtown to further their agenda? You better think it over real hard then, because history has proven that nut jobs with an agenda will do whatever it takes to further that agenda."

Wow! Haven't come across that one before. Is this a fairly widely held theory?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:23 pm • # 13 
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jkurtz7 wrote:
I'm sure that full power 10mm stuff eats recoil springs for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. I recall you bought the 135 grain loads which actually aren't ideal as a self defense round. Yeah the numbers look impressive, but that bullet was designed for .40 S&W, and even then it's not an ideal performer. At 10mm velocities that bullet will rapidly expand, and fragment, but penetrates very shallow. It does not come close to passing the FBI test for defensive ammo.

I would agree, the Delta Elite load would be a better option, from both a bullet performance perspective, and it won't beat the tar out of your gun.


You can buy a heavier spring for older Glocks, but they don't seem to be available for the Gen 4 Glocks. The Gen 4 has a dual spring anyway which does soak up some of the recoil. I doubt I will buy a heavier spring even if they become available. Just not that interested in shooting a lot of heavy loads. IF I can find more Blazer 10mm ammo, I will buy a bunch. I mostly carry in the woods. If I have to shoot a bear or wolf, I would prefer a bullet that shoots completely through the critter and out the other side, even if the critter runs off aways. With the Blazer ammo, which is a 200gr Flat Point FMJ at around 1050fps which is milder than 10mm potential, but easy on the gun and I can really fill the target with bullets fast. Also, the Alum, cases are light and 15 rounds in the mag is not all that heavy.

For CCW in and around people, I am looking at a milder JHP which is why I am looking at Winchester's Silvertips or perhaps Hornady Critical Defense loading.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:27 pm • # 14 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
"I in fact do believe Newtown was manufactured by those who would have this country completely disarmed. Don't think radical gun hating people wouldn't actually do something like Newtown to further their agenda? You better think it over real hard then, because history has proven that nut jobs with an agenda will do whatever it takes to further that agenda."

Wow! Haven't come across that one before. Is this a fairly widely held theory?


No not really, but having been involved in the 2nd amendment fight for a long time, I've been saying this since Columbine. I can very well believe that the recent rash of school shootings are "false flag attacks". There are people in this country that are pretty radical anti-gun zealots, and I can't completely dismiss the theory that they will use whatever means necessary to further their cause.

There are a few theories on Newtown. One is that it never happened and it's all a ruse to get the public emotional enough to back gun control. Another is that Newtown actually happened, but the mentally deranged perp was persuaded in some way to get the job done, and use the public's emotional response to further the cause, and yet another that thinks it did happen but was perpetrated by the government or gun control radicals and carried out my them.

I never put it past some radical, deranged, deluded, person, or group of persons to do very bad things to further an agenda. PETA has in fact set off bombs in the name of animal rights. Communist factions all over the world have done some very nasty things to gain control, and have succeeded in quite a few countries.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:15 pm • # 15 
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jkurtz7 wrote:
Communist factions all over the world have done some very nasty things to gain control, and have succeeded in quite a few countries.


I'd certainly agree with that, though they hardly hold a global monopoly in that endeavour. ;)
brent


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:57 pm • # 16 
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Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid

As the supply goes down(manufacturers slow production) the price (gouging) goes up. Profit on sale per unit goes through
the roof ....SO......BUSINESS BE BUSINESS.

We are the consumers and the consumed.

We no longer live in a 'Mining Town',where the people work in the 'Mine',live in the 'Mine' provided housing, buy from the 'Mine' store...Etc..
We live in the 'Business' country.

The price of ammo is just a distraction from the real problem. Wait to they sell our food and water to some other country....see what the price of a Big Mac will be.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:35 pm • # 17 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
jkurtz7 wrote:
Communist factions all over the world have done some very nasty things to gain control, and have succeeded in quite a few countries.


I'd certainly agree with that, though they hardly hold a global monopoly in that endeavour. ;)
brent


And most of the gun grabbers here in the States are pretty far left in their politics, so it's not hard to see similarities.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:11 pm • # 18 
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jkurtz7 wrote:
wheezeburnt wrote:
jkurtz7 wrote:
Communist factions all over the world have done some very nasty things to gain control, and have succeeded in quite a few countries.


I'd certainly agree with that, though they hardly hold a global monopoly in that endeavour. ;)
brent


And most of the gun grabbers here in the States are pretty far left in their politics, so it's not hard to see similarities.


:lol :lol :applause


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:31 pm • # 19 
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Until everyone stops buying .22 ammo as soon as any is put on the shelves, the dry spell will continue. I bought several bricks of federal (550 per box) at Wally World back when it was $8 a box. I would buy one brick almost every time I went there. I had plenty on hand, but lately I have given several bricks away to good friends that had none. I figured it would start showing up again and I could put back what I had given away. Not so.......So for the last few months, I have been shooting .17 Remington, .223, .22-250 and several handgun calibers (I load my own). NOW.....it is getting harder and harder to find smokeless gun powder.
What is now on the shelves is mostly shotgun powders.......Many of those can be used in pistol/revolver loads, but good rifle powder is really hard to find. Powders such as H4198 H4895 IMR4064 IMR 3031 Varget W748 etc...are just a few of the old standards that have disappeared. This is a combination of demand from ammo manufactures and people that reload "hording" what shows up on the shelves. Primers.....both L/S rifle and pistol primers have started showing up...I wonder how long before the powder does.............I am not completely out.......But I don't shoot as often as I like anymore either. And of course, The prices have gone up on all components.....Go-Figure
>>>> Here's something to think about <<<< """ The same thing could happen one day with FOOD """".........Don in SC


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:30 am • # 20 
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I bought a pcp benjamin marauder. Plenty of 22 pellets around and it kicks butt.

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