Just wondering does this fit into ultralight definition? Loop's 5/6 spey calims to be ultralight while some other Japanese companies have similar stuff going on, anybody into spey can share some lights?

I really like the ultralight two handed rods.
My present collection has the following:

TFO 11ft 4wt Deer Creek Switch
Sage 12ft 5wt SLT
Sage 11ft 5wt Z-Axis Switch
Sage 12.5 ft 5 wt Z-Axis

TFO will introduce this spring a 12.5ft 4/5wt Deer Creek.

Now these line ratings are not the same as single hand AFTMA line weights.
The two handed rods will have 1/2 the line head on the water and the other 1/2 casting with the rod.

Regards,
FK

I have a rebuild/repair of a Meiser 12'6" 3/4/5 that is just about ready to come off the dryer. Hopefully it'll see water yet this year!

Meiser's current lineup includes a 3/4 and a 4/5, plus all of his design input on the TFO DeerCreek rods. Gary Anderson also has a 4 weight.

I think the two-handed world is just now getting to the point that there are "ultralight" options. It's hard for me to think of them as such though, when my 3/4/5 weight will throw lines up to 400 grains. That's stretched over 55' rather than 30' but still equates to a bit heavier than my 8 weight line.

I'm tempted to build up one of the Batson switch rods, as well. They're rated with the single-hand ratings and they have a 5 weight. I also haven't given up the dream of calling CTS and getting a 12' 0 wt built, but then I'll have to find water to use it!

Joby,
I would like to learn more as I know nothing of this area.
Les

In that case - let's "on with the show!"

First - a disclaimer - I am in no means an expert, nor even a competent caster of two-hand rods. I picked it up about three years ago for a few very specific fishing situations when I was living in Arkansas. I then moved to Northern Alberta for a year. To put it mildly - nobody in either of the places I fished was available for teaching. As such, I had to rely for the online community and DVDs for all of my learning. Never-the-less: I have been able to catch fish ranging from 12" rainbows to 10+ pound pike and even a nice White River brown that the calculators say was around 13 pounds. UL two-handers have enough reserve for the big guys, but you can still actually feel the smaller trout, all the while fishing lighter tippet.

First - I posted the re-build of my two hander here: http://ultralightflyfishing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?&t=2298 It is a 3/4/5 weight rod. The classification system tends to be pretty wide for two-handers because of the wide range of lines that these rods can throw. The two-handed world seems to be moving away from line ratings towards offering grain weights windows. This rod, for instance, is best suited for casting lines ranging from 200 to 400 grains total in the head.

Two-handed rods (much more than single-handers) are extremely sensitive to line choices. Some rods appear to be absolute dogs until you find *just* the right line for them. I'm currently using a 360 grain Rio Windcutter II line with about a 55' head. This is on the upper end for the basic casting, but it allows me to load the rod and feel it with less of the head out there. Once I improve my casting abilities, I'll most likely want a lower weight line.

That's the basic, so far. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Like I said - I did most of my learning online from two very useful sites. I don't want to hijack this forum by posting here, but if you're interested you can PM me and I'll send you links. They're really not that hard to find, though.

I hope this is a good enough post to start the ball rolling and help you come up with questions.

John - I've been eyeing that Dorber blank myself for a year or so. I'm thinking of putting in a 4"-6" extension to stiffen up the butt a touch, but the slower action should really suit some of t. The upper grip is going to have to be extremely petite to avoid dampening the rod too much. If you pull the trigger before I do, I want to know how it goes. I'm thinking about calling Dorber and seeing if they could extend the blank to 11' or so.
Of course, if money were no object, I'd call up CTS and get one rolled.

I tend to think of a 4/5 weight two-hander as UL - but a simple "3 weight" rule for UL classifications makes great sense.

Welcome to the UL Forums Phish.

J.

Those are definitely advantages of spey casting, though not the only ones. There are two really big benefits that I see for UL fishing.
1 - Less effort and impact on joints from casting all day. More than one angler has had to give up conventional fly fishing because shoulder injuries (or the like) simply will not allow them to cast all day anymore. Spey casting has no false casts and the rod is doing the vast majority of the work.

2 - The biggest advantage: less need for room behind you. Depending on the style you use, you can cast past fishing distances with as little as 5-10 feet clearance behind you.

Of course, you also have a fantastic mending ability with the long rod, if you so need it. Also, the fishing style is simply fun and enjoyable. It's a nice changeup from conventional fly fishing.

It is #2 that makes me consider the opportunity for UL switch rods more than anything else. There are a couple of local streams where the tree and brush growth have me roll casting all day until I've waded nearly halfway across the fishable water.

Ultimately, UL spey will probably be limited by the lack of waters that demand it. There are a few places on the White river in Arkansas (Bull Shoals, Beaver tailwater, shad-kill season) that were begging for it. The heavier UL rods (3/4 weights) actually have more backbone than needed to land 10 pound steelhead, so you'll begin to see UL anglers there. Finally, wade fishing stillwater shallows with shooting heads and streamers is a blast and lets you cover more water than otherwise possible without a boat.

This is just a list of my uses for the rods. They're actually quite versatile - even to the point of nymphing with an indicator (shhhh don't tell) if the situation so calls for it. Even though there isn't too much water out there that you need UL spey - there is a *ton* of water where it could be very efficient.

JobyKSU covered it quite well. I got 3 spey rods but the the 4wt Decho is what I am always using. At times when water level are low is when it is overkill and I will go back to a SH rod. Another great thing is that when water levels are high or where you want to fish sections of river where it's to dangerous to wade. Longer rod will fight a fish with lighter tippets which I have gone down to 8X on the Elk River in WV. I know one thing though I am single spey casting on my 0wt sage rod and my roll casting has improved tremendously on my SH rods.

A 5wt really is borderline for UL. It's all relative, and when you consider that many west coasters use 8/9 or even 10/11 weight rods, 5 begins to seem pretty light! Of course, some of the flies they throw can best be described as "dead chickens" (wish I had come up with that description!) that will go absolutely nowhere on a 5wt.

A 4/5 weight spey line has the same weight as about an 8 weight single hander, so in general, they are much more wind resistant. My 3/4/5 can cast #6 double-bunnies and 2/0 pike flies without too many problems. Casting into the wind or with the wind are much less likely to cause as many problems as with singlehanders, as you don't have to worry about your loop crumpling behind you. Of more concern are sidewinds: Trying to use the "single spey" cast (as opposed to the double spey) with a stiff downstream wind can really ruin your day.

The problems I have had are snapping tippet: the casts create so much sudden force and line speed that a decent sized fly will snap off on the forward stroke (much like a two-dollar whip snap on your backcast).