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Which Line [Affordable] Line Should I Buy?
AquaNova 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
BPS White River 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
SF Fly Line 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Max Catch 67%  67%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 3
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:05 am • # 1 
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I know, I know. You really get what you pay for in these situations, but I'm trying to make my dollar stretch here. I'm getting a 7'6" 0wt RDP fly rod and am currently looking around for fly line right now. It seems like the options are super limited, but here's what I have so far.

Aquanova WF [0-8wt]- Super affordable at $15.00, but it reviews say that it attracts a lot of grime and requires a good amount of maintenance.

BPS White River Small Stream Fly Line DT [2-5wt]- At an solid price of $20+shipping. 55' long which is all I'd need for a rod like this, but lowest weight is 2wt. Would it be too hard on the 0wt rod? This is currently my #1 pick because of the pricepoint, but again, my biggest concern is that it would be too heavy.

Max Catch Fly Line WF [2-8wt]- $19.00, a good variety of colors, and has good reviews. Bad reviews were addressed by maxcatch, so it seems like they are very responsive. But again, is 2wt too much on a 0wt rod?

Amazon's SF Fly Line WF [1-9wt]- $20.00, good reviews, and free shipping with Amazon prime, this one is hard to beat. The only negative reviews are regarding the fact that the line can come as a bird's nest which is the only hold up. Reviews also say that it's rated higher than it feels, so I'd probably get a 2wt line.

Rio Trout LT [000-8wt]- Ranging from $50-60, this is appears to be one of the nicest ultra light lines. However, it is way out of my price range. :/

The big question here is- would lining my 0wt 7'6" RDP fly rod with a 2wt line be too much? If not, I'd probably go for the Max Catch considering the reviews on the line's performance and company's responsiveness.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:55 am • # 2 
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Having had 4 RDP rods, from experience with the 1 and 2wt. I wouldn't hesitate to up line the 0wt with a 1wt line. A 2wt may be a little much.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:50 am • # 3 
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I have two suggestions.

1. Some of us scavenge the running line from worn out WF for use on lower weight rods and are quite happy with them.
Decide which WF's running line match the 0 wt spec and ask forum members if any has a worn out WF of that weight they would part with.

2. This suggestion involves something I have done to save money. Then after meeting Linecaster he demonstrated to me that I could use
these lines described below as a shooting head, all I needed to do was use his casting technique. This will work for you too.

Purchase a larger weight line at the price your interested in, such as the 2 wt as I have generally gone two weights higher.
Starting from the point at which the running line progresses to the taper, start weighing the line until you reach the desired weight and then
cut the line at that point.

Here's another method of determining the length of the line you need without the use of a scale.

Take the oversized lines to the water with the target fly rod. Cast with short lengths of line until you fine the amount of line that loads the rod to your satisfaction.
Measure the length of line that has loaded the rod. Starting from where the taper starts measure toward the head that length of line that loads the rod and then
cut the line at that point.

Linecaster's would then take the tip section of the fly line, remove the tip section and reattach to the head of the section of line that is to be fished; this gives a better cast.
I dispense with this step and nail knot my leader to the fat head tip. It splashes some so if your a perfectionist I'd follow linecaster's technique.

BTW save that portion of the fat taper that's been cut off because you may be able to use it to make a shooting head for the 0 wt.

Let me know if you want me to weight my 2 wt WF and I'll let you know the lengths I come up with that match the 0 wt spec.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:27 am • # 4 
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I have always overlined by 1 size on all the RDP blanks that I have built on with good results. Also since distance is not usually an issue with the lower wt rods, I usually go with mostly the cheaper lines such as on the auction sites with no problem


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:24 pm • # 5 
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what reel will you be using on the 0wt ? just wondering


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:05 pm • # 6 
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JimRed wrote:
I have two suggestions.

1. Some of us scavenge the running line from worn out WF for use on lower weight rods and are quite happy with them.
Decide which WF's running line match the 0 wt spec and ask forum members if any has a worn out WF of that weight they would part with.

2. This suggestion involves something I have done to save money. Then after meeting Linecaster he demonstrated to me that I could use
these lines described below as a shooting head, all I needed to do was use his casting technique. This will work for you too.

Purchase a larger weight line at the price your interested in, such as the 2 wt as I have generally gone two weights higher.
Starting from the point at which the running line progresses to the taper, start weighing the line until you reach the desired weight and then
cut the line at that point.

Here's another method of determining the length of the line you need without the use of a scale.

Take the oversized lines to the water with the target fly rod. Cast with short lengths of line until you fine the amount of line that loads the rod to your satisfaction.
Measure the length of line that has loaded the rod. Starting from where the taper starts measure toward the head that length of line that loads the rod and then
cut the line at that point.

Linecaster's would then take the tip section of the fly line, remove the tip section and reattach to the head of the section of line that is to be fished; this gives a better cast.
I dispense with this step and nail knot my leader to the fat head tip. It splashes some so if your a perfectionist I'd follow linecaster's technique.

BTW save that portion of the fat taper that's been cut off because you may be able to use it to make a shooting head for the 0 wt.

Let me know if you want me to weight my 2 wt WF and I'll let you know the lengths I come up with that match the 0 wt spec.


Thanks for posting Jim!

I've decided that I'm going to go with option 2- getting a 2wt line and cutting it. It seems like a good option as a get a normal fly line and a shooting head out of it. I ordered the MaxCatch WF fly line in 2wt, but I'm not really sure what length I should be cutting it at, so it would be great if you could help me out with that.

However, I'm a little unclear on Linecaster's method in cutting this fly. This is what I have envisioned, is this correct? From what I'm taking it seems like you're just shortening the belly?
Image

A couple questions regarding this build- how does it cast in comparison to the conventional WF line? If the picture shown above is correct, it seems like the line would just be a shooting line with a tapered back. As for Linecaster's technique, what does that entail exactly? Would this build be a speycast build or...?

@tinknocker1

The reel I'm using is a MaxCatch 1/2wt reel, it weighs in at 3.35oz which is one of the lighter budget reels that I could find.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:16 pm • # 7 
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kaiser, it's not a spey line. I will make up a diagram and post and also get some 2 wt line weight information.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:25 pm • # 8 
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JimRed wrote:
kaiser, it's not a spey line. I will make up a diagram and post and also get some 2 wt line weight information.


Awesome, thanks! Really excited to see how a build like this would cast, I did some reading on this innovation and it seems to eliminate a lot of false casting. It seems like this could be applied to nearly all ultra light rigs, is there any reason why you wouldn't? Seems like you can throw the same if not more line with less effort.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:51 pm • # 9 
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I tried pasting a drawing but that didn't work so I draw with text.
.............A .............B.....................C.............D
tttttttttttttbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Assume ttt... is the tip, bbb... is the belly and rrrr.... is the running line.

We are experimenting with the 2 wt line and rod to determine how much belly is needed to
load the rod. We find that the length of belly from A to B loads the rod. We then measure
the length of A to B starting at D and determine that AB = CD. We sever the line at C. Our
fly line now consist of the running line and the belly length C to D.
If we choose we can attach the tip section (tttt....) to C by severing the line again at A. We are left with a length
of belly from A to C which might be useful to make a shooting head.
(Personally I just nail knot a leader at C but l get a perceptable splash from the head when it lands on the water.
I am usually fishing under windy conditions and the splash isn't apparent; in calm waters the splash is annoying to me if not the fish.)

I put 3 ft of 2 wt belly on a scale and several times and I got 10 grains. If others would like to confirm that
and provide their measurements that would be appreciated.

I am assuming 30 ft of 0 wt line is 40 grains (couldn't find a chart to confirm). If that assumption is true
then our length above from A to B (and C to D) should be approximately 12 ft.

In summary I'd like to point out that I originally used this technique to make a fly line for a 3 wt rod from a 5 wt line because I found 5 and 7 wt lines on sale
for pennies on the dollar. I purchased cabela fly lines last year on sale and now have both modified and lines in their store bought configuration and
I use them all, depending on how I want to fish. A modified line will not fish the same as a line engineered by the factory but it will fish and sometimes, but
certainly not in all cases, perform better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:31 am • # 10 
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JimRed wrote:
We find that the length of belly from A to B loads the rod. We then measure
the length of A to B starting at D and determine that AB = CD. We sever the line at C. Our
fly line now consist of the running line and the belly length C to D.

So we fuse line A to B with line C to D?
Also, by belly, do you mean just the belly without any taper considered? Or do you mean the whole head?

JimRed wrote:
If we choose we can attach the tip section (tttt....) to C by severing the line again at A. We are left with a length
of belly from A to C which might be useful to make a shooting head.

Here you say that we're left with a length of belly from A to C, but how is that possible? Aren't we using the line from A to B in order to make our fly line?

Here's what I have so far- the red portions are the portions I use for the line and the distance from A to B is leftover.

Also, Grain Rating only accounts for the first 30' of the flyline so we don't know the weight of the rear taper. In order to get a more accurate rating, shouldn't we get it like this? Let me know if which chart is accurate.

Image

Here's another way I interpreted your instructions, but it doesn't look as right for some reason.

Image


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:35 am • # 11 
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My aquanova started majorly cracking within a year.

I used the olive 1wt. MaxCatch line, and liked it. He sells on ebay, so check there.

No experience with the other lines. IMO, I'd stick with a line rated closer to 0wt than go two up. I overline all my UL rods by one, only because it feels better to me.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:27 am • # 12 
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strummer wrote:
My aquanova started majorly cracking within a year.

I used the olive 1wt. MaxCatch line, and liked it. He sells on ebay, so check there.

No experience with the other lines. IMO, I'd stick with a line rated closer to 0wt than go two up. I overline all my UL rods by one, only because it feels better to me.


Unfortunately, it seems like they don't make them in 1wt anymore. :/


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:13 pm • # 13 
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Kaiser wrote:
JimRed wrote:
We find that the length of belly from A to B loads the rod. We then measure
the length of A to B starting at D and determine that AB = CD. We sever the line at C. Our
fly line now consist of the running line and the belly length C to D.

So we fuse line A to B with line C to D?
Also, by belly, do you mean just the belly without any taper considered? Or do you mean the whole head?

JimRed wrote:
If we choose we can attach the tip section (tttt....) to C by severing the line again at A. We are left with a length
of belly from A to C which might be useful to make a shooting head.

Here you say that we're left with a length of belly from A to C, but how is that possible? Aren't we using the line from A to B in order to make our fly line?

Here's what I have so far- the red portions are the portions I use for the line and the distance from A to B is leftover.

Also, Grain Rating only accounts for the first 30' of the flyline so we don't know the weight of the rear taper. In order to get a more accurate rating, shouldn't we get it like this? Let me know if which chart is accurate.

Image

Here's another way I interpreted your instructions, but it doesn't look as right for some reason.

Image


Kaiser, neither of the diagrams you drew is what I intended. I've ignored the taper of the belly; the taper is not discernible to me without a
micrometer. In the bottom diagram if the segment BCD is moved to the left such that D starts at the belly where C is, C is moved to where B is,
the line is then severed at C and everything to the right of C is the fly line (that would be the belly from C to D plus the running line.
Then the front taper can be severed from the front of the belly and attached at C.

Now the top diagram would be great if you could join the segments successfully such that the joint passes through the guides smoothly, but with this
diameter of line that would be a trick. I've tried. The techniques I've seen on the web deal with thicker diameter line and I have been unsuccessful applying those
techniques to smaller diameter line, but my failure doesn't mean it can't be done.

Another thing I wanted to mention. Before cutting up the line, reverse it and see how the 2wt running line casts with the 0 wt line. You would be casting
a level line; that's all we had when I started fly fishing and it worked just fine. I will weight my 2 wt running line and see what I come up with and post it later
tonight.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:55 pm • # 14 
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Kaiser, my 2 wt is a DT. Maybe someone that has a WF 2wt will measure 30 ft of their running line and post the weight; or ,
just try the line reversed and if you like the feel...

I have seen posts on this forum where an individual makes his own fly line in these low weights.

At any rate, if you decide you don't want your 2 wt line and want to invest in another approach, I can always use another
2 wt line, just let me know.

Let us know how it turns out and please don't hesitate to continue asking.....this is fun stuff!


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:38 pm • # 15 
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JimRed wrote:

Kaiser, neither of the diagrams you drew is what I intended. I've ignored the taper of the belly; the taper is not discernible to me without a
micrometer. In the bottom diagram if the segment BCD is moved to the left such that D starts at the belly where C is, C is moved to where B is,
the line is then severed at C and everything to the right of C is the fly line (that would be the belly from C to D plus the running line.
Then the front taper can be severed from the front of the belly and attached at C.

Now the top diagram would be great if you could join the segments successfully such that the joint passes through the guides smoothly, but with this
diameter of line that would be a trick. I've tried. The techniques I've seen on the web deal with thicker diameter line and I have been unsuccessful applying those
techniques to smaller diameter line, but my failure doesn't mean it can't be done.

Another thing I wanted to mention. Before cutting up the line, reverse it and see how the 2wt running line casts with the 0 wt line. You would be casting
a level line; that's all we had when I started fly fishing and it worked just fine. I will weight my 2 wt running line and see what I come up with and post it later
tonight.


Ah I see, I was having a hard time making sense of it as I was considering the taper.

So for my purposes, let's say the diagram I have right here is more or less to scale to the line I bought. Based off of your instructions, it seems like I'm just getting rid of a portion of the belly and reattaching both ends, is that right? I'm a very visual person, so it can be a little hard to envision all of this through just text.

Image

If I get this diagram down, I think this could be a great resource for UL anglers. The options for UL lines are so limited and expensive, so this could be a great alternative.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:23 am • # 16 
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Try to include the front taper on a modified line as this will maintain a good turnover. I have found that a belly shorter than 15 feet tends to land heavy on the water. OPST heads are short but have a 10 foot tapers tip attatched which allows a softer landing.
.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:41 am • # 17 
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linecaster wrote:
Try to include the front taper on a modified line as this will maintain a good turnover. I have found that a belly shorter than 15 feet tends to land heavy on the water. OPST heads are short but have a 10 foot tapers tip attatched which allows a softer landing.
.


Thanks for chiming in linecaster.. Would it be wise for me to just add an extra 3 feet of belly in the diagrqm that I whipped up then? The model I have right now would be about 40grains, making it rated as a 0wt line, so if I add another 3ft, it shouldnt change the rating too much, right?


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:08 pm • # 18 
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Without wishing to burst anyone's bubble, my personal feeling is that a few years ago a major fly tackle manufacturer did us sort of a favor by introducing a line of UL gear that was rated below a i-weight. However, they apparently changed their specs at some point along the way.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=4151

Therefore, a "0-weight" line probably weighs more than 40 grains over the first 30 feet. So what really matters is how heavy or light a line must be to balance out a given rod. That's why I think that for lines below a 1-weight, we should refer to it just by the actual grain weight of the first 30 feet. That is also why I have taken to making my own lines from scratch.

Quite a few years ago I used to make shooting heads up out of 4- or 5-weight DT lines for rods with the same rating. At that time my approach was to work out how long a line I could easily keep in the air with a good line speed, cut it at that point, and attach a runnning line, like 12- or 15-lb Amnesia, and smooth out the knot by winding thread over it with a fly-tying bobbin, whip-finnishing it and coating it with head cement. While I have yet to try that with anything of 3-weight or under, that approach may work well for you with that 2-weight and a "0-weight" RDP.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I am very interested in building up a rod on a 7 1/2-foot RDP blank.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:05 pm • # 19 
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PampasPete wrote:
Without wishing to burst anyone's bubble, my personal feeling is that a few years ago a major fly tackle manufacturer did us sort of a favor by introducing a line of UL gear that was rated below a i-weight. However, they apparently changed their specs at some point along the way.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=4151

Therefore, a "0-weight" line probably weighs more than 40 grains over the first 30 feet. So what really matters is how heavy or light a line must be to balance out a given rod. That's why I think that for lines below a 1-weight, we should refer to it just by the actual grain weight of the first 30 feet. That is also why I have taken to making my own lines from scratch.

Quite a few years ago I used to make shooting heads up out of 4- or 5-weight DT lines for rods with the same rating. At that time my approach was to work out how long a line I could easily keep in the air with a good line speed, cut it at that point, and attach a runnning line, like 12- or 15-lb Amnesia, and smooth out the knot by winding thread over it with a fly-tying bobbin, whip-finnishing it and coating it with head cement. While I have yet to try that with anything of 3-weight or under, that approach may work well for you with that 2-weight and a "0-weight" RDP.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I am very interested in building up a rod on a 7 1/2-foot RDP blank.


Seeing as the grain ratings for a 0wt are more or less the same as a 1wt rod, can I just get away with using the 2wt line then?

Ok, so I weighed out the first 30ft of some 1wt Aquanova flyline that came with the rod. The first 30 feet weighed in at about 80g, meaning that it should be rated as a true 2wt line. It's a whole weight heavier than what it's rated for! It's no secret that linemakers like to make lines that weigh out a little heavier than what they're actually rated for [GPX line comes to mind], and I do prefer that my lines a touch heavier.

Seeing as the 0wt would be rated at 60-65grains and the MaxCatch 2wt line is rated for 80grains, shouldn't the combination work out without any tampering? Or am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:18 pm • # 20 
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Kaiser wrote:
PampasPete wrote:
Without wishing to burst anyone's bubble, my personal feeling is that a few years ago a major fly tackle manufacturer did us sort of a favor by introducing a line of UL gear that was rated below a i-weight. However, they apparently changed their specs at some point along the way.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=4151

Therefore, a "0-weight" line probably weighs more than 40 grains over the first 30 feet. So what really matters is how heavy or light a line must be to balance out a given rod. That's why I think that for lines below a 1-weight, we should refer to it just by the actual grain weight of the first 30 feet. That is also why I have taken to making my own lines from scratch.

Quite a few years ago I used to make shooting heads up out of 4- or 5-weight DT lines for rods with the same rating. At that time my approach was to work out how long a line I could easily keep in the air with a good line speed, cut it at that point, and attach a runnning line, like 12- or 15-lb Amnesia, and smooth out the knot by winding thread over it with a fly-tying bobbin, whip-finnishing it and coating it with head cement. While I have yet to try that with anything of 3-weight or under, that approach may work well for you with that 2-weight and a "0-weight" RDP.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I am very interested in building up a rod on a 7 1/2-foot RDP blank.


Seeing as the grain ratings for a 0wt are more or less the same as a 1wt rod, can I just get away with using the 2wt line then?

Ok, so I weighed out the first 30ft of some 1wt Aquanova flyline that came with the rod. The first 30 feet weighed in at about 80g, meaning that it should be rated as a true 2wt line. It's a whole weight heavier than what it's rated for! It's no secret that linemakers like to make lines that weigh out a little heavier than what they're actually rated for [GPX line comes to mind], and I do prefer that my lines a touch heavier.

Seeing as the 0wt would be rated at 60-65grains and the MaxCatch 2wt line is rated for 80grains, shouldn't the combination work out without any tampering? Or am I missing something?

Kaiser, your diagram conveys my intentions. I think the idea of the taper is to have a smooth transition through the fly line to the leader to the fly. Any abruptness in dimension or weight will have some affect on the smoothness of the delivery. You could always test without the taper and then again with the taper attached to see which configuration you prefer.


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