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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:20 pm • # 1 
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BACKGROUND. I came to Canon City, CO in 2010. The Arkansas River runs through town and ran low in 2010 and 2011 drought years. Then I used a 12' tenkara rod and only lost a few big fish because I couldn't give line. Flows were stronger since and I lost more fish, so I tried a 13.5' rod, which was a better fish fighter, but I still lost some nice fish and I disliked the length. I tried a friend's 8' 3wt with 20' of my favorite tenkara line (10# mono) on his reel and found that not only could I cast #16 tung beadhead nymphs well enough with a wrist flick to catch plenty, but I liked fishing this way. So I bought an 8' 4wt rod a year ago.

PROBLEM. My friend's 3wt feels better, enough that I think I want a 2wt, and 8'-9' 2wts seem to be few and mostly expensive. I could be happy with a Sage Little One for $150 but since that won't happen what else is there? My experience with another friend's Redington 7' 3wt Butterstick tells me short and noodly isn't what I want for hook setting when nymphing.

QUESTION. Would a TFO Pro II 8' 2wt flick my usual nymphs out nicely on a long leader? Better than a Redington Classic Trout 8'6" 3wt or Cabela's LSi 8'3" 3 wt? Or ...

My looking tells me discontinued potentially good rods and blanks are almost too hard to find.

What does your experience tell you?

John, from where all the trout are above average.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:25 pm • # 2 
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Location: Colorado
Hi John,

I grew up in Canon City and cut my teeth on the Ark. I know the river in town quite well.

You want to fish that river with a 2wt.? You are more man than I am. And you say you like the Tenkara style? Ok.

I see nothing wrong with the TFO Pro II. I had one and liked the medium fast action and flex very much. It is a powerful rod that's quite fun when you have a fish on.

I do have the Redington. 8'6" 3wt. It has a medium action with more flex. Using this rod in the manner you want it for, it will be more forgiving as in less tippet breaking when you hook a big one. And if you fish around. "The Wall" by Raynolds Bridge, you will get a big one at some point.

I have more to say and ask, so I will PM you later.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:24 pm • # 3 
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Iasgair (Teryll) -

My tenkara evolved to using little weighed nymphs. The flies and tenkara style of holding light line off the water are so effective that I want to retain both while using a rod with a reel. I know the competitive international fly fishers use 10'-12' 2wt-4wt rods to cast similar flies and mono line, and they get a nice big fulcrum effect to help cast, but I don't want to go that long yet if ever. My 8' 4wt Fenwick Aetos casts OK with a hard wrist flick. I'm guessing an 8' 2wt might cast easier. I'm also guessing if Rim Chung of RS2 fame doesn't feel under gunned with his short 0 and 2wts I wouldn't either. I'm making two guesses and if I guess wrong I'll eBay my mistakes and look some more.

The TFO 8' 2wt might be as good as any mid priced 2 wt for my purpose? OK. I'm considering it.

Yes, Canyon City has its charms.

You PMd me and I'll now PM you back.


Last edited by johnlau on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:21 am • # 4 
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Now that I read your post, I can understand what you're achieving here. Most people I know fish the Ark with 5wts, but.....what you are doing has really got my attention. You and I seem to fish in a similar way, but still different. I grew up fishing dries & wets. Using the methods of W.C. Stewart. I have used different techniques as I matured into my fishing lifestyle, but came back to my beginnings and have not been happier.

What you have going on sounds like a total blast, pure excitement when hooking into a fish. That's the great thing about the Ark., is that you don't ever need to do any lengthy casts. Keeping it close and personal is way more fun and productive in my opinion. And it sounds you have found that out. Good for you !!
The challenge I see using a 2wt, and not to challenge what Mr. Chung has said, but to add to it I hope, is trying to keep the fish above you. I could be wrong here because I never considered a 2wt on that river, but keeping the fish upstream if you can would be a challenge I would love to try. Its when they get below you, downstream, then you have the fish and current to tangle with. But what a fun problem to have !

Ok , I will do what you have asked with my 2wt, keep in mind its only 7' 6", so it won't feel like an 8' rod, but if my rod can do it, an 8' surely will. I have a pond behind my house, so I can try it out there.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:10 pm • # 5 
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Many posters on this forum said good things about Echo Carbon rods, so when a 7' 6" 3wt came available for $114 shipped I decided to try it. The Carbon is superseded by the Carbon XL which probably accounts for the bargain, but it's the earlier Carbon that got good reviews in FF Ohio's 2wt Shootout, and, though shorter than I wanted for nymphing, I figured at minimum it would make a good dry fly rod with the right line.

I've already fished it three days and caught a fat 16 1/2" rainbow without problem. It casts my 10# nylon line with one or two size 16 bead head nymphs significantly easier than my 8' 4wt Fenwick Aetos or a my friend's 8' 3wt old Cabela's two piece. It's harder to cast 30' but I don't care. It doesn't hold line off the water as well as an 8' does or a 9' would, and about that I do care. It's why I may yet get a longer 2wt. But for now this is fun.

It cast nymphs so well that for yuks I tried something I didn't bother to try with my stiffer 4wt - cast a dry fly with the 10# mono line, in this case a size 16 hackled caddis. Not much surprise it doesn't work. I suppose to cast the occasional dry fly is one reason Euro Comp fly fishers use 10' and longer rods and 12-15# line.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:52 am • # 6 
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Hey John!

If you really are interested in (European) long leader nymphing I would go all the way and buy a 10' or 11' rod. for Czech nymphing I would choose a 0 or 1 weight and for french nymphing a 3 weight. I'm no fan of long rods but for that kind of fishing the differnce they make is enormous... French Nymphing specialists like Mauro Mazza use leaders in the 45' category...
But they are of course specialist rods and not on the cheap side of the spectrum...

If it´s just regular fishing with a bit longer leader, let's say around 15', the length of the rod is less important than its action (wouldn't go under 8'6" tho, just for the mending involved...)

Cheers!

Gerhard


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:53 am • # 7 
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Well, Gerhard, of course you are right - IF I wanted to do European long nymphing the new traditional way, which I don't. Having used a 14' tenkara/kiose rod part of a year I am very familiar with the advantage of length. My main fishing buddy is still pursuing the advantage and is up to an 18' rod. I am heading in a different direction - short rod long leadering.

My newly bought 7 1/2' Echo Carbon 3wt is better than the 8' 4wt I was using. I suspect I would yet prefer an 8-9' very fast action 2(or3)wt, something with backbone and a soft tip, a shorter version of most long leader specific rods. I also suspect there is no such under-$200 rod out there, but I am waiting to see if a forum member tells me he knows there is because he has used one.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:37 pm • # 8 
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This is just my opinion, so you can take it with a grain of salt, or a big block of salt lick. ;)

A "very fast rod". Not this child.

I agree about the soft tip, because that makes sense for what you're looking to do. But being up close and personal with the fish like you will be, and I say that because you can get a strike just 5' away from you, I don't like the idea of a very fast rod.

Why?

I'm glad you asked. Not fun. Being at such short distances to the fish I personally wouldn't want a very fast rod because of the general stiffness. Might as well use a broomstick. I would go with a med/fast rod with a soft tip.
You'll still have plenty of backbone, which is what you want, but you'll get some bend in that rod John. Feel the fight man!

C'mon, besides, we all like to do those famous Orvis poses when no one is looking. Then again, maybe for the drama some folks do the Orvis pose with the rod bent around them gritting their teeth in front of a small crowd. Grrrrrrr! :applause :applause :applause :lol

Again, this is all just my opinion. You fish whatever way brings you the most joy, because you fish for you, and I fish for myself.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:49 pm • # 9 
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The 7 1/2' Echo Carbon 3wt has now caught a 19" rainbow in the presently around 300 cfs tailwater below Pueblo Reservoir (Pueblo, CO), and an 18"er and 17"er and more than a dozen 15"-16". Its shortness is a presentation handicap I have become comfortable with, and the rod can handle anything 5X tippet can so I don't have to let fights drag out too long. In a few weeks I go to winter at the Texas coast, and when I return in Spring I MIGHT ask a local custom rod maker, Jim Pushchak, to see if we can come up with a 8'-9' that is even more fun.

Fast action rod no fun because too stiff butt? In a 2-3wt rod? I doubt I will ever see a 2 or 3wt blank so stiff in any part that it takes the fun out of 10" and bigger trout.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:16 am • # 10 
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I don't get to do what you're doing, so what I have to offer may be totally irrelevant. I have shied away from posting in this thread because of that, and I may be out of line here, but I decided to post anyway. I have a 2 weight Pro II that I bought strictly because it's an 8' rod (I wanted a longer rod for my application); because TFO builds a great rod for the money; and because I couldn't afford a high-end, $800 rod. I primarily fish salt water, but I like to hit the white bass run in the spring, and a 5 weight rod feels like overkill. I always prefer the lightest setup that the winds and currents will permit me to use, whatever I'm fishing for. I got my 2 weight and its first use was on the Trinity river during the spawning run. I caught (and released, naturally) some 15" and 16" white bass hens that were an absolute hoot on it, and its 8' length made casting so much easier with the (lightly) weighted flies I used than a 6' rod would have. I seldom fish in tight quarters and a short rod offers no advantage for my needs.

After using my 2 wt. Pro II for white bass I realized that it was a perfect rod for the winter specks (saltwater spotted weakfish, known as specks or just trout here on the Texas coast) that I often catch from 50 to 100 a day, anywhere from 12" to twice that, with the average fish probably 16" to 18". Now, as a teenager I caught rainbows, brookies, brownies, and landlocked salmon. I caught them on conventional gear and I caught them on flies. I preferred fishing the small to medium sized rivers, but I fished large rivers, as well as still waters, also. I say this to show that I know what the fish you pursue can do, in swift water and in still water.

In my saltwater fishing with my 2 weight I have caught reds -- red drum -- (waaaay outpull any of the fish you pursue), jacks (a five pound jack will destroy tackle that a ten pound brown wouldn't faze), and others that legitimately test the tackle. The rod stands up to them admirably; I have no problem controlling them. The biggest issue is how much backing is on the reel; I have come close to being spooled on the 2 wt. a few times, and it will eventually happen (I've been spooled a BUNCH of times with conventional gear over the years). I also chase those specks with my half weight TFO; that'll probably be a spool job pretty soon.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer my perspective on the TFO Pro II 8' 2 weight rod. It won't turn a big trout on a light tippet downstream in a strong current, but the tippet is a larger factor than the rod in that scenario. I think you'd be happy with the rod, but I'd say try one out before you buy it. If I didn't use mine so much, I''d ship it to you for a trial run. But then I'd miss out on some huge fun.......


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:11 am • # 11 
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Hipshot, thanks for the pertinent input. I also at various times and places have found that landing strong fish quickly on a light rod is not a problem using light, say, 5X tippet. The tippet is overwhelmingly the limiting factor though occasionally a longer, stiffer rod might steer a fish more to the left or right to good effect.

It is interesting that you agree with others that the TFO 8' 2wt might be the rod I am/was looking for. Probably the reason I don't have one yet is that the 7.5' 3wt Echo Carbon I couldn't not buy is occupying the niche, for now at least. Again, thanks.

And it sounds like those coastal fish are plenty fun.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:50 am • # 12 
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I have the Echo 10ft 2wt,,, specificly designed for nymph presentation.

Regards,
FK


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:53 am • # 13 
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I'm going to keep my nymphing rod 9' or shorter. I do not claim this is logical, just something i want to do.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:22 pm • # 14 
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I'd like to update my findings re this thread. I finally got a TFO 8' (carbon) Professional II 2wt because Iasgair and others on this and other forums think highly of it, and the price was right at Trident Fly Fishing. Also got an Aventik 7'8" (fiberglass) 4wt because some opinions were that a low modulus rod might cast a virtually weightless line better than a higher modulus rod, and the Aventik has some good mentions on several forums, and it was $70 on Amazon.

Though I like both rods almost equally when casting regular fly lines, I do not find the Aventik better at casting the French leader. That the TFO is a little longer and also lighter to hold at arm's length is a clincher.

The 7'6" Echo Carbon 3wt is now backup. Still holding off on longer than 8' because a rigged 8' just lays in the bed of my Toyota long bed ... convenient for 5-10 minute drives from home to favorite parts of my town river.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:00 pm • # 15 
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Not satisfied with the TFO carbon 8' or Aventik glass 7'4". Unfortunately the TFO doesn't have the backbone I'd like for fighting my big fish in big water. The Aventik has almost enough backbone but the wrist-snap-forced-cast I need creates too much tip oscillation.

What is the fastest tip action 2-1wt 8' (-9'?) carbon rod you know?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:06 am • # 16 
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I’ll throw my 2 cents in finally. Now I have had the TFO Pro II in 2wt, great light weight long rod. But since you don’t seem to care for it for you fishing purposes I will throw in another option. When I was in Colorado with the Army I fished the Ark and South Platte every chance I had. I had several different rods that figured that I would use, but always ended up grabbing my TFO BVK 3wt. In stock form it is 8’, 4 piece, fast action rod. I also had the 10’ conversion kit for long leader nymphing. All my buddies looked at me like I was crazy when I would rig it up and hit the water compaired to there 5 and 6wts. New the rod runs 249 and the conversion is like 109. There was a fly shop smelly both together for 309 on eBay a few weeks ago. Either set up handled every thing that I could throw at it. From little 6” Brookies to fat 24” Rainbows. I fished both rivers when the flow was low, and the south platte running at 600+ CFS. Also used it in Texas as much as I could. Chasing creek and pond bass, panfish, and white bass. I don’t know if you will ever find a 8 or 9’ 2wt that will cast a 14’ leader well. But here is another offering that may slide into your arsenal.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:54 am • # 17 
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Mbarker, if the BVK 3wt has more backbone, as it seems it should, then it would be more what I want if it throws the long leader as well as the Pro 2wt. I appreciate your opinion and will look for an opportunity to try that BVK.


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