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 Post subject: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:53 pm • # 1 
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Joined: 06/12/18
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Location: Melissa, Texas
My apologies in advance if this has already been discussed to death, I'm new to this group. I was wondering if anyone who has used the higher end rods and reels can tell me if they are honestly THAT much better? I recently built a 7'6" 0 wt rod from a kit I got from RDP. I ended up going this route because I could not justify the cost of the Sage Little One and there just aren't that many options out there for a 0 wt. I put this rod together for a little over a $100 and it's a great rod.

I have been fly fishing for a very long time and my most expensive rods to date are my Echo's ( I have 3 all under $200) and my most expensive reel has been a Reddington Drift 2/3 and Zero 2/3. I'm just having a really hard time wrapping my head around fly rods that cost $800 -1000 and especially fly reels that cost nearly $1000. I even saw a pair of Hatch line clippers that cost $99.99. I can afford this higher priced equipment (although Upper Management at my house would most likely veto this purchase) but does it really make that big of a difference? I'm really not judging here, (except for the line clippers....that's just ridiculous); it's your circus and it's your monkey. I've just never had the opportunity to try the high end rods and reels and was just curious.


Thanks

D


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:59 pm • # 2 
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Joined: 07/10/09
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Location: Plano Texas
Some like to spend their money and let you know they did. I am cheap and have no need to brag about how much I spend on anything. Regarding the high end rods to the affordable variety, I cannot compare, as my most expensive rod was a 2 weight TFO Professional 8'6". I have used it close on 13 years and happy. I could not justify a high end price rod.


Last edited by linecaster on Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:24 pm • # 3 
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Location: Coppell, TX
I have inexpensive equipment, especially the reels. I've noted that all things being equal the more expensive a rod the lighter; so I assume it takes
more care to build a, for example an 8' ft 5 wt rod at 2oz compare to an 8'ft 5 wt rod at 4 oz. The components on the more expensive rod being higher
quality must drive up the cost. I like to fish my $150 dollar rods more than my $80. I enjoy the cheaper rods too but don't fish them as often.

I'd like to hear the opinion of someone who's fished a range of lower to higher priced rods.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:44 pm • # 4 
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Joined: 09/28/16
Posts: 77
Confirmation bias is inescapable with this.
On the other hand I have an extreme range in the valuations.
My cheapest rod until I broke the tip this winter was a Shakespeare "micro series" 7 foot 4/5 wgt. This was a very nice rod even though it was under $20 and I think that may have been list price!
I've had or tried (both ways) some cheapie fiberglass rods and they just suck. I mean, absolutely like a piece of wet cardboard.
My most expensive is probably my 6 weight Orvis cane rod from early 60s. This one is simply a dream to fish. It is my favourite overall.
I have a number of other canes too.
I have some list at $80 or so Cabelas rods. I love the 3 forks 3 weight. The 5 wgt is useful and good except it gets wrapped up lot. Not sure why. I rarely get that problem to the same extent on bamboo.
I also have a big 10 weight fiberglass rod. This is such a big monster I have nothing to compare it to. On any fish under 10 lbs or something, it has no real excitement. And an old 1960s 5 weight glass rod that used to be my rod as a kid. I definitely like the way the cane is far more though--and this is not confirmation bias!
Each rod is different. If I had a St Croix or a Loomis or a TFO how would they compare? No idea.

Reels I also have a big range. My favs are old ORvis and old Hardy. But I also fish a Bronson Royal a lot. That was surely an inexpensive reel back in the day! It is very light.
My cheapest is probably the new Cortland Fairplay I bought on closeout for $5. Retails 29 or so.
Without a doubt the Hardy reels are the nicest. They just have that sound. And they are beautifully and precisely made. The click pawl is reliable. Even though fully cages they are so well made they don't jump. I find the fairplay jumps quite often. It is that modern open design.
I also fish the salt with a 80 buck Cabelas. The first one blew the drag while fishing. They are private label by Lamson. But they are nowhere near what a Sage reel is. I had one. The carbon spool. That was the best made reel. I mean absolutely perfect. Fullcage but palmable. No way to get water in the drag nor in the bearings. dead simple to clean. Drag utterly dependable. But I've only put fish on drag a handful of times. But if you need that, on salt, I think it is worth while.

Fresh water, my bronson and my cortland are fine. The only thing that matters for trout is keeping the line from tangling. You don't need a drag.

That's; a whole lot of words to say, "it depends."


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:23 am • # 5 
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Location: Rusagonis, New Brunswick, Canada
Davyboy: no apology necessary. I don't think this issue has ever been conclusively (or even comprehensively) discussed here. And I always enjoy the discussion anyway. :) I always learn something. |I very much enjoyed Fastyacht's balanced and insightful comments, coming from an informed source.

I don't own any high end equipment (or even medium level, I'd guess, based upon what 'high end' means in fly fishing from a $ perspective.) but I've cast a few relatively expensive rods and cranked a few relatively expensive reels, and I gotta say, they are things of beauty and craftsmanship. My guess is, if you can afford it, want to spend your money that way, and you don't have unreasonable expectations* as to what effect they will have on your angling experience, then by all means, you will not regret buying the $900 rod and the $300 reel.

* While there are a lot of factors that contribute to an enjoyable day on the water, as long as your equipment is functional, I'd say your attitude and your choice of company (including 'none' sometimes) play a way more important role. Then again, maybe I'm not typical. I just spent two hours across the road last night casting flies to fallfish, chubs, sunfish and tiny bass, and giggling to myself. :eek
brent


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:03 am • # 6 
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Location: Plano Texas
We'll said Brent.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:01 pm • # 7 
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Joined: 06/12/18
Posts: 11
Location: Melissa, Texas
Gentlemen,

Thanks for your input. I was just curious what others thought about the performance versus the cost of the higher end stuff and at what point did the rule of diminishing return kick in. It just seems crazy how much some of this stuff costs. I've been in the Orvis store in Dallas and Plano and their rods are incredible as far as craftsmanship and materials are concerned..... about had a heart attack when my wife picked up one of their cane rods and accidentally bumped the tip on a display case.

I'll stick to what I got. If somethings works for you; why fix it, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:08 pm • # 8 
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Joined: 09/28/16
Posts: 77
Because flyfishing is so simple, for small stuff, trout or panfishing, it is not hard to come up with a reliable rod. So easy to fish with very inexpensive or even substandard equipment. Even wet cardboar will catch fish:-) Reels are merely lineholders as we handline the fish through the guides.

But this all changes in salt water or any spinning gear. Then reliability becomes a big deal. Even for the rods, but more so for the reels. Once you are in salt (and in fresh up against muskie, gar or something) then the reel has to be reliable which is anecdotally described in my first post. I've learned the hard way that spinning gear is even more critical in this regard. The cheap reels are false economy. You *will* lose the fish because they *will* break. (Ask me how I know this :-D)


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:49 pm • # 9 
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Joined: 01/26/09
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I have 3 or 4 rods that ranged from $300 to $600 when new, but I would say the rods I use the most range in price from $60 to perhaps $200. I remember reading in one of John Gierach's books where he asked Lefty Kreh if a $700 rod really worked any better than a $200 rod. Lefty told him the more expensive rod was better, but there were probably no more than 10 people that could really tell the difference in performance. I have played with some expensive rods that I thought were real dogs, and I have cast some inexpensive rods that I instantly fell in love with. For my fishing, I think my CGR 2 weight is the greatest rod I own, when considering the bang for the buck.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:14 pm • # 10 
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Joined: 09/09/14
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Location: southern Brazil
Whether buying high-end equipment is worth it is a question for each one of us to answer individually.

In “Testament of a Fisherman” Robert Traver wrote this. “I fish because I love to; because… trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience…”

Even though fish are not impressed by expensive gear, many fishermen are. But fish cannot read the brand names on our equipment anyway.

If I had an extra $1,500 lying idly around, I would spend it like this. One hundred dollars would go for something like building an RDP 0-weight, no more than $50 would go for a quality vintage reel, and another $50 would go for a line (or I might make my own), $50 would be for really good leader material and flies. The remainder would go for the expenses of fishing trips.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:41 pm • # 11 
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Location: Rusagonis, New Brunswick, Canada
Fastyacht: We have only recently (20 years) had a muskie fishery here, as a result of indiscriminate stocking in Quebec. Bear in mind, this is Atlantic Salmon country: one of the local fly shops started carrying muskie spinning and baitcasting rods, reels and lures. Turns out the rods and reels sold for more than much of their salmon fly gear, and sold faster. I cannot believe how smoothly those reels work.

Pampas Pete:
You struck two chords with me on that one. I absolutely love Robert Traver's "Testament" (got it framed and mounted in my fly tying room), and I have always favoured spending money on experiences rather than things.

(Lee Wulff, who fished the salmon rivers (Miramichi) where I live, was known to have cast a fly line and played a large atlantic salmon using no rod at all in 1943. A friend who has long since passed on had the pleasure of guiding Lee and Joan a few times. I asked if he'd ever witnessed this particular party trick. He said no, but he did know another guide who once witness Lee fishing with a reel that kept falling off the rod, so he just stripped the line off into the water, tucked the reel in his pocket with the backing still attached, and fished without a reel all day. Mind you, by all accounts, he was a pretty accomplished caster and apparently, line handler).
brent


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:35 pm • # 12 
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Joined: 11/20/08
Posts: 209
Years ago I had a few high end sticks. Top of the line Sage and Winston. They were great rods that I can honestly say were MUCH better rods than my cheaper ones.
Then brands like TFO, Echo, etc. started producing really great rods from overseas. This closed the gap considerably.
I’ve cast the new Orvis H3 rods and I honestly like my TFO BVK more. Certainly doesn’t justify a $500 price difference for a fast rod.
Different playing field these days. Some really great rods are out there for not much money.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 am • # 13 
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I built a couple Sage rods. I love them, but, I admit Batson sells blanks that cast just as well for a fraction of the price. Some of my favorite blanks cost under 30.

The Sage 4280 reel is one of the nicest I've ever owned. I have yet to find anything in that price point or lower that feels better. Well, up until it seized and is was with the Spectrum.

Freshwater UL, I use cheap Chinese reels, those with one way bearings that make no noise when you reel. I hardly ever catch anything that puts itself on the reel. If you're patient, you can score them for under 15. I just picked up a 3wt line for 8 bucks shipped. Best Chinese line I've purchased!


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:00 pm • # 14 
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I remember back about 25 years ago we had a custom rod builder with a shop in town. He built a lot of rods on Sage blanks, but also on Batson blanks. He told me one day that he had doctors and lawyers in town who had him build them $700 rods on Sage or Winston blanks that they might use for a few days out of the year. He told me since I was not all that concerned about fancy rods that he could build me a better fishing rod than they had for about $200 to $250 using a Rainshadow blank. I never did take him up on it, because in those days that was still way too much money. And, by the way, those expensive rods I mentioned in my first post were either purchased used, or in one case, from an insurance salvage store. Even when I could afford it, I could never bring myself to pay full price for one of those high end rods. They are nice, yes, but I just couldn't pay more for a fishing pole than I paid for my first car.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:07 pm • # 15 
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Joined: 07/25/13
Posts: 323
Location: Southern NH
Canoeman1947 wrote:
They are nice, yes, but I just couldn't pay more for a fishing pole than I paid for my first car.

Larry
It would be hard for me not to pay more than I paid for my first car. I bought a 1948 Plymouth from my uncle for $10 in 1963.

On the low end I have rods I paid under $20 for new.
I have rods I built from $30 blanks.
I also have top end rods from Sage, St. Croix and Echo.
I like them all.

One of the $20 rods gets a lot of use. I always have one (I bought several) in my car for spur of the moment fishing.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:27 pm • # 16 
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" I bought a 1948 Plymouth from my uncle for $10 in 1963."

We have a winner!!!! :applause
(I bought a '60 falcon from a friend's mother in 1969 for $35, but that doesn't count because I had to give it back when it turned up on a 'stolen cars' list a few days later. Which was a bit embarrassing because my friend's father was the chief of detectives at that time.)
brent


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:32 pm • # 17 
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Joined: 09/28/16
Posts: 77
wheezeburnt wrote:
" I bought a 1948 Plymouth from my uncle for $10 in 1963."

We have a winner!!!! :applause
(I bought a '60 falcon from a friend's mother in 1969 for $35, but that doesn't count because I had to give it back when it turned up on a 'stolen cars' list a few days later. Which was a bit embarrassing because my friend's father was the chief of detectives at that time.)
brent


I bought my first car for $35 too! It was a Datsun 510 wagon.


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:15 pm • # 18 
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Joined: 02/20/09
Posts: 34
I bought a 510 Datsun Station Wagon in 1979, great sweet car... too bad body fell apart, 180,000 miles on the engine, was still cherry...
I tend to get uneasy fishing high end fly fishing equipment, I have broken several rods during my fishing adventures, and most have had life time warranties, replaced... I really put my fishing tackle thru a workout, thus am more comfortable with glass, and lower end fly rods...but there is a Maslow hierarchy niche' for everyone... Unfortunately, I am a Ford Pickup truck type of guy… try to focus on having fun. The fish only see your flies, and how you fish them, not the rod or tackle your using... I have had an absolute blast catching bluegill with a .25 cent Accardo popping bugs on a borrowed $39 Shakespeare fly rod combo outfit. I have often said the Fly fishing industry needs to be careful they don't price themselves out the market. For example, It amazes me that a high end G-Loomis 7' bass rod will go for $75-150 at Bass Pro Shop; and the same G-Loomis fly rod, same basic rod blank that is 8-9' long and because it says fly fishing on it, goes for $800- 1000??!! ... I do believe this is a reason for the resurgence of Fiberglass fly rod has also reappeared, they have become more professional cosmetically & they are more cost efficient... The China fly rods I also feel are very good quality, cast and perform well for the money… again, this is my opinion only


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:47 pm • # 19 
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Gillbuster: I had a 71 510 that ran great, but by '76 it had developed the 'gullwing fender' feature. The front fenders had both rusted out completely at the bottom, and at anything over about 45 mph, they would begin to rise to the sides. It was the 1.6 liter engine. Just didn't have enough grunt to get me to speeds where those 'wings' could give me any real 'lift'.
brent


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 Post subject: Re: Higher End Equipment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:45 pm • # 20 
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Joined: 10/11/15
Posts: 410
I have used heavy $30 fly rod from walmart and caught fish...I discovered TFO fly rods and fell in love. My most expensive rod is $300 which gets used in the salt mostly and my middle of the road RDP fly rods are in the kayak on every trip. I wouldn't know how a $500 or more fly rod casts...but I would be scared to ever use it because i am so rough on my tackle......


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