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PampasPete
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:07 pm • # 1 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 519 Location: southern Brazil
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In the thread on “Which UL weight class do you use most”, there started to be some discussion about shooting heads for Ultralight Fly Fishing. That topic is of some interest to me, but rather than further side-tracking that thread, it seemed more appropriate to start a new one. Several years ago I used to use shooting heads on 4- and 5-weight rods for overhead casting. But at that time it involved using double taper lines of the same weight, finding out how much line could be kept in the air with good line speed and a tight loop, then cutting the line and nail-knotting on some Amnesia running line. The results were good, enabling me to have delicate casting ability for trout fishing yet increasing my effective distance. Anyway, to get things started, here is a link to an article on the subject. https://globalflyfisher.com/fish-better/shooting-headsWhat do you all think we could do for shooting heads that are 3-weight or lower?
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strummer
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:10 am • # 2 |
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Joined: 06/13/16 Posts: 936 Location: Southwest Florida
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I'm curious about this too. I've been invited to fish a place where there is no room for a back cast...
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linecaster
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:59 pm • # 3 |
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Joined: 07/10/09 Posts: 1555 Location: Plano Texas
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We have discussed this subject in depth a couple of times in the Ultra light forums. If you have a 3 weight rod use the OPST Commando head with a 10foot Mow floating tip and normal leader. I made up my own for my 2 weight TFO Professional. 8 foot rod. You can cast with a simple pickup and shoot or learn the Skagit/Spey casting technique. Plenty of videos on micro single hand Skagit casting . Go to the OPST on You tube. I can get 60foot plus casts with no back room for a pick up and shoot. I tried the short shooting head but learned that for an effective Skagit/Spey cast you need two and a half length of line plus leader. I use Slickshooter or Amnesia line for running shooting line. Best is 20lb but can go down to 15lb I prefer 20lb.
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PampasPete
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:34 am • # 4 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 519 Location: southern Brazil
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JimRed, please tell me about the logic and physics of using a 21-foot 2-weight shooting head on your 4-weight rod.
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JimRed
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:27 pm • # 5 |
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Joined: 08/31/15 Posts: 1042 Location: Coppell, TX
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PampasPete wrote: JimRed, please tell me about the logic and physics of using a 21-foot 2-weight shooting head on your 4-weight rod. Well I just lost a few minuets of texting so I will do this in increments submitting the post in small parts. Thanks for the question PampasPete; hope this doesn't get boring and if it does just zone me out. I fish all my fly line modifications with my 2,3,4 and 5 wt, 2 piece TFOs, my 3wt Native Custom and once I haul that clumsy one piece 4 wt Prime out to the car it will get added to the mix. There are 2 reasons I do this, logically: I hope to gain a qualitative understanding of the physics of fly casting by experiencing the affects of different wt fly lines on specific rods, flys and under various weather conditions; secondly, the experience of catching a fish is enhanced by minimizing the line size but more so with an 8 inch Blue Gill than a 3 pd Bass; and, I catch a lot more 8 inch Blue than 3 pd Bass. An example of selecting a fly rod and line wt on a given day follows: if I would be more likely to catch Blue Gill but need a long cast and will be fishing with the wind at my back then I would fish the 5 wt rod with a 21 ft 3 wt head and a 15 lb mono running line. If the wind were at an angle to my cast then I would need to go up in weight. I also use braid as a running line. If it's winter and the temperature below 40 degrees then I would be fishing for bass instead of Blue Gill and my choice of running line is currently a braid with a the 21 ft head. The braid performs better in the cold while mono kinks so badly casting becomes impossible. There is another reason for minimizing the line size: line weight is the major factor in my physical stress. With ageing and my insistence of maintaining a ritual of fly casting almost daily for at least 30 minuets, my body has become very sensitive to the elements of fly casting. I enjoy experimenting with different fly rods, line weights and flys to understand the stress affects of these elements on my body.This ageing factor has made fly fishing even more interesting and enjoyable. Which leads me to the finale point, why 21 ft for the head: that specific length maximizes my casting efficiency which minimizing stress.
Last edited by JimRed on Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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jangles
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:30 pm • # 6 |
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Joined: 05/28/18 Posts: 603 Location: Tucson , Hellazonia
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JimRed wrote: PampasPete wrote: JimRed, please tell me about the logic and physics of using a 21-foot 2-weight shooting head on your 4-weight rod. Well I just lost a few minuets of texting so I will do this in increments submitting the post in small parts. I hate it when that happens . lol
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PampasPete
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:43 am • # 7 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 519 Location: southern Brazil
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JimRed, thanks for the explanation so far.
The reason for asking is this. Modern conventional wisdom about shooting heads tells us that it’s best to use a line that is two weights above the weight recommended on the rod. But you talk about going two weights below the recommended weight, so that caught my attention, like “maybe this guy knows something that others don’t.” A long time ago, I used to use same-weight lines for shooting heads by finding out how much line the rod would keep in the air with good line speed and tight loops, and use that length to make a head. So that meant heads that were 30 to 35 feet long. That approach worked well for me in still-water trout fishing.
More recently people have become quite interested in switch / spey casting, for which they recommend going (at least) two weights up when making a head. I questioned that until trying it, then it came to make more sense, as much less line is involved in making a D-loop for roll / switch / spey casting than in overhead casting. That casting style also uses surface tension of the water in part to load the rod. But still if I use a 3-weight rod with a 5-weight (or heavier) line, then the UL aspect becomes debatable.
So, when you use a lighter 21-foot head, does surface tension help load the rod for pick-up-and-shoot casting? And is that overhead casting or something else?
My next experiment is to use a cheap fast-sinking 4-weight with 12-pound test Amnesia to make a shooting head. But first I have to build out a packable 3-weight rod, so more on that later.
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JimRed
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:39 pm • # 8 |
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Joined: 08/31/15 Posts: 1042 Location: Coppell, TX
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PampasPete, the water's surface tension is absolutely essential and the pickup point is normally as the shooting head enters the guide; this is a factor in minimizing stress since it eliminates false casting. I theorize that the forward cast gains acceleration over a traditional fly line because the running line/fly line mass difference causes the rod to load better during the back cast.
The technique is not at all conducive to accuracy but that is not important in the waters I fish.
And with the 21 ft head, as you indicated, if I go up two line weights then I can make active roll casts, sort of like spey casting.
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jangles
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:25 pm • # 9 |
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Joined: 05/28/18 Posts: 603 Location: Tucson , Hellazonia
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JimRed wrote: PampasPete, the water's surface tension is absolutely essential and the pickup point is normally as the shooting head enters the guide; this is a factor in minimizing stress since it eliminates false casting. I theorize that the forward cast gains acceleration over a traditional fly line because the running line/fly line mass difference causes the rod to load better during the back cast.
The technique is not at all conducive to accuracy but that is not important in the waters I fish.
And with the 21 ft head, as you indicated, if I go up two line weights then I can make active roll casts, sort of like spey casting. So you're water loading the line ? Thats an effective way to do it but what about ponds where there is no current ?
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JimRed
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:42 pm • # 10 |
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Joined: 08/31/15 Posts: 1042 Location: Coppell, TX
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Jangles, there is no current in any of the water I currently fish with this method, they are all ponds, small lakes and canals; loading occurs none the less.
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Unknownflyman
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:23 am • # 11 |
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Joined: 04/22/19 Posts: 40 Location: Minnesota
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I spey cast on lakes all the time, single and double spey, it works as well as rivers once you get used to it.
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PampasPete
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:29 am • # 12 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 519 Location: southern Brazil
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Unknownflyman wrote: I spey cast on lakes all the time, single and double spey, it works as well as rivers once you get used to it. That's encouraging. Do you do that with rods and lines of 3-weight or less?
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jangles
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:43 am • # 13 |
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Joined: 05/28/18 Posts: 603 Location: Tucson , Hellazonia
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I wasn't talking about spey casting, just letting the line drift down river from me and water loading it . I also do that with the mono rig . I suppose I could spey at the waters edge but I never fish ponds or lakes , takes the fun out of it for me . Sorry for the confusion .
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Unknownflyman
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:46 pm • # 14 |
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Joined: 04/22/19 Posts: 40 Location: Minnesota
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Edited
Last edited by Unknownflyman on Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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linecaster
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Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:17 pm • # 15 |
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Joined: 07/10/09 Posts: 1555 Location: Plano Texas
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I Skagit/Spey cast with my 2 and 3 weight rods with 21 foot shooting heads exclusively, fishing ponds and rivers and from my kayak. A quick pickup and shoot or a Spey, easy 60 foot casts.
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