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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:54 am • # 1 
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I do the lion's share of my fishing with either my Cabela's Clear Creek one weight or an ought weight rod that Zenkoanhead built on a Dan Craft blank. I seem to find myself in small creeks near work or home 90% of the time hence my UL tendencies. If I head out onto lakes with stripers or sandbass of course the go-to switches to a six or eight.

But, to return to the point - I am also a big furled leader nut. I furl them for myself and for sale. After spending quite a bit of time on Duck Creek in the afternoons finally came up with a formula for the little stuff - basically it's made in a three foot length using 6/0 Uni thread for the material. This seems to work very well for the little #12 and smaller nymphs and wets that the sunfishes seem to adore to destroy! Bigger material, 3/0 or fishing mono makes too heavy a leader to cast very effectively. Winds up being more mass than the fly line can turn over easily/gracefully.

Also, Coates & Clarke nylon monofilament quilting thread works well and can be obtained at Walmart sewing departments across the USA.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:20 am • # 2 
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I have several or Robin's leaders and he is exactly right. Many of the furled leaders on the market are too long and too thick. I call this the tail-of-the-kite effect. You can actually see the leader nullify the loop both on the forecast and the backcast. I treat my leaders with a bit of Tru-oil to make them less wind resistant. Robin has experimented a bunch on his leaders to get that perfect turnover. Don


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:56 am • # 3 
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I guess it all depends on if your prefer a shorter or longer leader. I regularly fish a seven foot furled leader, with a 5 to 6 foot tippet, for a total lenght of 12 - 13 feet. No problem turning over fairly bulky size 10 dries. I think alot depends on how effectively the junction points (line to leader, leader to tippet) perform in regards to transferring energy "down the line".

I can certainly see fishing a shorter leader in tight situations, but when it comes to large open rivers and lakes (where I primarily fish), I think far and fine are beneficial when fishing UL.

The nice thing about our sport, do what works for you.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:11 am • # 4 
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A 13' leader and tippet? Yikes! I have heard of it being done, but have never seen it. I can see where the knots would have to be perfect. Don


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:10 pm • # 5 
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To be honest, the leader itself does most of the work. For whatever reason, I've always fished long leaders. Even when I used to use single strand mono leaders, I regularly fished a leader 12 - 14 feet without any particular problems. Things actually got easier once I started using furled leaders (7 or 8 years ago) The furled leaders turned over much better than the straight mono leaders did. They really serve as an extension to your fly line, so if you are casting a decent loop, the furled leader doesn't have much choice other than to follow along. Once that happens, it just becomes a matter of flipping over the length of tippet you are using. That's the thing, with a furled leader, you can easily cast a nice loop with just the leader by hand. Once you get it moving, the tapered mass it carries is going to roll it out. Something almost has to get in the way to prevent it.

I don't want to overstate my case, I'm not fishing 60 or 65 feet of line. I usually fish 30 - 35 feet of fly line out, add another 12 feet of leader, so I'm fishing out about 40 - 45 feet. That's about as far as I can reliably manipulate my fly, and reliably do a hook set. I do occasionally cast a long line, just for fun. I don't notice any particular problem with my set up, but I quickly revert back to a shorter line if I want to catch fish. And of course, I'm fishing wide open waters so I'm not worried about my back cast. If I was fishing small wooded streams, those longer leaders would get old real quick.

The main problem I sometimes see is hinging up at the leader to line connection. If the energy generated by the line isn't being efficiently transferred, it will cause a problem. I guess the other potential problem area would be if the leader had a poor design. Just like with a rod, it depends on having the proper taper based on the material being used. There is a very wide variety of materials and possible taper formulas. Materials that are limper may require extra mass (i.e. more twists) to transfer the energy of the cast. Again, just like with a rod.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:18 pm • # 6 
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I have a thread furled leader from DF Furled Leaders that I am going to fish this coming weekend to see how it rolls over.

Robin, I am sending you a PM.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm • # 7 
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thanks Andy

I can see how a properly composed setup would work. It would be merely an extension of the flyline proper. As noted, the connections would have to allow for a seamless Xfer of energy.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:03 pm • # 8 
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My problem with longer leaders is the "poop out". Everything looks good until about the tippet, then the fly settles in a pile. Don


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:32 pm • # 9 
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Zenkoanhead wrote:
My problem with longer leaders is the "poop out". Everything looks good until about the tippet, then the fly settles in a pile. Don


There is that as a consideration as well. I don't see me using that long a leader unless I were able to spend enough time to set it up. I am sure it could be done. But my fishing time is too precious to me to get too much of it getting technical, honestly :)


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:48 pm • # 10 
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Zenkoanhead wrote:
My problem with longer leaders is the "poop out". Everything looks good until about the tippet, then the fly settles in a pile. Don
How are you connecting your mono to the end of the furled leader? Again, that junction needs to be able to transfer the energy from the unfurling furled leader to the mono tippet. At that point, it's the same principle with straightening out a tippet on any kind of leader.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:04 pm • # 11 
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pszy22 wrote:
Zenkoanhead wrote:
My problem with longer leaders is the "poop out". Everything looks good until about the tippet, then the fly settles in a pile. Don
How are you connecting your mono to the end of the furled leader? Again, that junction needs to be able to transfer the energy from the unfurling furled leader to the mono tippet. At that point, it's the same principle with straightening out a tippet on any kind of leader.
Okay this is a good question. What is the best connection for the tippet to the furled leader? I use a surgeons loop on the tippet, and I sometimes get that "poop out" thing going on.

J.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:14 pm • # 12 
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Perfection loop here, and I seldom get the poop out effect unless I blow the cast.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:43 pm • # 13 
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Loop to loop. I should try the Aussie style to compress the furled leader loop. Sorry I don't have a link to that loop to show everyone. Don


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:11 pm • # 14 
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Don, can you give details on how you dress thread furled leaders with Tru-oil?


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:22 pm • # 15 
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The leader to tippet connection tends to be a touchy subject amongst furlers. So let me give this disclaimer, I'm not saying this is the best way, it's just the way I do it. As long as what folks use works, that's great.

I personally don't think most problems are caused on the tippet side of things, it's how the furled leader is terminated that I think can cause problems. Let me say, I'm not a big fan of tippet rings. For sake of discussion, if I wanted to put a flexible (hinging) connection in the system, what better way to do so than put in a nice shiny ring for things to pivot on? Alot of people use them, and like them, so again, it's just my opinion.

So what do I like? I "nail knot" a single strand mono looped extension at the end of the furl. I think that's the best way to make that transition. I do then use a loop to loop connection between the extension and the tippet. I will say there is a right way and a wrong way to connect the loops. I think a good loop to loop provides a very secure way to connect mono to mono which allows for an effective transfer of energy..

Again, I'm not saying this is the "right" way or the best, it just know it's one way that works well.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:27 pm • # 16 
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There is another fellow I know that dips his furled leaders in varnish, he then hangs the leaders up over a pan and lets the excess drip and drain off. His philosophy is the varnish protects the leader strands, adds stiffness, and removes stretch. Again, each to his own, I personally like stretch in my leader. I can't remember the last fish I broke off on a hook set since I started using furled leaders. Of course, alot may have to do with a UL rod as well.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:27 pm • # 17 
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Well, I hadn't thought of that. What size mono do you use?


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:54 am • # 18 
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flyflingerandy1 wrote:
Well, I hadn't thought of that. What size mono do you use?
The mono I use for extensions varies based on the "size" of the furled leader, as well as the stiffness of the actual mono. For leaders to be used for 00 - 3 weights, I usually use something in the 6 lb range. For leaders designed for heavier rod weights (I don't know why people would want to fish with a heavier rod, but I guess the customer is always right) I'll use up to16 lb test. The best thing to do is to grab the furled leader in one hand, the extension in the other and flex the connection, you want to see it form a nice smooth arch. When you see that arch, you are pretty sure everything is compatible, if it just sort of kinks, it means either the materials aren't compatible in size/stiffness, or try a different way to connect them.

For the leaders I sell, I usually make the extension about 6", for my own use, I've used them 2 or 3 feet long. That allows me to fish a really long leader, i.e. 15 - 16 feet in total length. As I say, I am a long leader man, I typically use a longer leader than I actually really need. But hey, most of what we do when we fish is probably excessive. That's what makes it fun.

Hope that helps.


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:04 am • # 19 
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Soaking the leader in Tru-oil would make it too stiff. I put it on the leader just as I would wood. A little on the pad of my index finger and thumb and then rub it into the leader. Allow it to dry overnight and apply another coat, if needed. The big loop gets a little extra because I don't want it to roll over. After it is the right stiffness, coat with Mucilin. Don


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 Post subject: Furled Leaders for UL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:29 am • # 20 
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Interesting, thank you Don. I will try that on my thread leader.


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