One thing is certain, TFO has got us all talking about them and their product line. In the world of public relations to which my wife belongs- this kind of buzz cannot be bought.
Les

I don't know about reasonable product, or reasonable price. There are way better rods in the same price range.

J.

All I'm saying here is that when you compare blank to blank, TFO to something else, the other blanks in it's class cost less.

J.

Something else too, you do remember our phone conversation on CCS data, and the ratings that ALL the TFO rods get (not including the Finesse series).
They are pawning off 6wts as 5wts, 9wts as 8wts, and 11wts as 9wts etc. That's not reasonable to me. Rate the **** line wt for what it really is.

J.

David the only other alternative out there is the one we've already discussed, the Dan Craft 6'10" 1wt. It only costs $24 more than the TFO, and no doubt will blow the TFO out of the water. I'm not telling you not to buy the TFO, in all fairness I haven't cast that one yet. Uncle Larry likes it so it must be decent. He isn't going to give something a good rating if it's junk.

And Doug, that's a legit rant. Your right, TFO isn't the only one doing it, but they are certainly one of the worst offenders. I'd like these companies to start making good fishing rods again, not parking lot cannons that don't fish worth a crap.

J.

Doug, you have hit the nail on the head with #3. In fact, let me link you to one of these discussions on another forum that I started, by posting the information on the TFO rods, Professional, IM6, and TiCr (with one cane, and one Finesse tossed in for comparison).

http://freestateflyfisher.../viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1827

I have a hard time with things being said about it such as, "Just buy what feels good and LEARN to use it." "LEARN to use the rod with the rated line." Honestly, what is there a standard for? Why can companies like TFO, making cheaper rods, fudge SO BADLY on line weight. Their 5wt Pro, is a heavy six. The 9'9wt TiCr is actually a 12 wt, and so forth. This is common practice, and in a standardized industry, should not be happening. The Finesse line is spot on!

Andy,
I've seen this same kind of reaction before. It's almost like they are saying "I really don't want to know what the data says, my rod is a 5wt cause it says 5wt. IMHO, rod manufacturers who do not adhere to standards in line weight ratings for their rods are doing a tremendous amount of damage to the recruitment of new members to fly fishing. A newbie walks into a fly shop knowing little, if anything, about tackle and walks out the door with an armload of new gear. The rod is a 5wt and the line says 5wt but he can't even hit the water with it. His arm hurts and he has line wrapped around his head. The line is a 5wt but the rod is really a7wt. The newbie can't feel what is going on with the line. He gets frustrated with the whole thing and sticks it in the closet and gives up. Somebody please explain to me how this is a good marketing strategy for the manufactures????

People are freaked out about the line ratings on rods. They seem to think overlining a rod is an insult to their ability and manhood. Rate a rod for what it is. If a guy wants a faster action rod to match their style underline it and if they want to slow things down a bit just overline it a weight or two.
With a standard, at least you know what your buying.


Just my 2 cents

Doug

I think #1 is dead-on, but you have to be careful with #2&3. It's obvious that honest opinions run the gamut. When I started fly fishing I went to a fly shop that had a milk crate full of reels with dozens of different lines. The first couple of rods I bought from these guys were selected after casting each with 3 or 4 different lines--not just higher and lower line weights, but different manufactures and tapers. And this wasn't something I asked them to do for me--this is something they recommended I do. Everyone's style is different and what feels great to me might be unworkable for someone else. By the time I started building rods I had a large collections of lines, and could tell for myself which line weight I liked with which rod, and I have a few rods that I consistently fish two different lines weights on, depending on where I'm going.

Not to beat the TFO thing to death, and I know what the numbers say, but... (yes, you knew that was coming), I ordered the TFO 8'6" 5 wt and the first time I really cast it was when I fished it. A standard Cortland peach 444 in a 5 wt, and I was delighted with how well it cast. Nice tight loops and almost all my casts were 25-40'. I also have an Orvis Wonderline Power Taper 5wt, which is billed as a 5-1/2 wt line. When I use this line with the TFO if I get more than 30' of line in the air the rod feels over-lined to me. Could be that after years and years of Sage rods I'm just used to a certain action, or just that my casting stroke is totally messed up--who knows?

I have no doubt this rod could handle a 6 wt line and some people might like the feel of that better, but 5 feels perfect to me. And this isn't just because I happen to own a TFO and we defend the rods we own. It's a budget rod and I have no emotional connection to it. I have a Sage 5 wt that I would rather fish, but I still think the TFO feels great--especially for the price, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it--which is why relying on someone else's opinion is scary

If you want to properly condemn an entire line of rods from a single manufacturer then I think you need to go cast them one at a time a see for yourself if they each feel horrible at their advertised line wt. If your purpose is just to find a rod that you like for a good price then cast as many as you can and try several different lines. If you're in North Texas and want to try one out just let me know. I have the rod and 4, 5, and 6 weight lines in DT, WF, Trout Taper, Bass Taper, and Power Taper.

And one more data point; while in Colorado in October I had the opportunity to cast my brother's TFO Pro 7'6" 4pc 3wt at the same time as my Sage LL 7'9" 2wt. The TFO 3wt felt great to me and it cast beautifully in the 20-30' range with a DT3F line. In fact it compared very favorably to my Sage--almost embarrassingly so considering the price difference.

So there you have it. The entire scope of my experience with TFO rods--not much I know. I hope I haven't offended anyone--I just hate to see what appears to be a decent company trying to put out a decent product get unilaterally slammed.

Best regards,

Jerry

Nah Andy, I've only cast the 2 TFO rods I mentioned. I don't doubt that some of their rods are whacked--I just don't think the guys are dishonestly trying to sell an entire line of lousy rods, and some of the blanket statements made here might lead you to believe that. Both TFO's I tried cast very nicely in the 30' range with the advertised line weight.

I completely agree that long casts aren't necessary or the norm for the vast majority of people. Maybe it's because I suck once I get out much past 40' ;-) Like you, most of my casts are fairly short, yet I still prefer a faster action in a 4 wt and above (my Sage Smallmouth is the obvious exception). With UL it's a different story though--I love the full-flex action of my new 1wt, and frequently overline my Sage 2wt to slow it down a hair.

I guess the bottom-line is that you guys have experience with TFO's that suck, and I've had great experience with the 2 (different) TFO's that I've tried. So if someone were to ask our honest opinions regarding TFO they would be radically different. Hence, the only safe thing to do is cast the rod or buy it online from someplace that will let you return it.

On a slightly different note, I just boxed up the Ross Cimarron 1 to return it, and the Lamson Velocity should be here Friday. I look forward to being won over by the smooth drag :-)

Take care,

Jerry