It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:54 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next   Page 1 of 3   [ 49 posts ] New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:47 am • # 1 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1359
Maybe some of you would add your comments on a special thread discussing, what is ultra-light fly fishing? We know from our experiences with fly rods that its very difficult to pinpoint ROD WEIGHT because there are no industry standards. Andy made a good point the other day by using FLY LINE STANDARDS which are industry defined. Some 2 weights are really 4 weights; some fiberglass rods say they are five weights but the ERN tests class them as 2 or 3 weights. So, how do you define ultra-light?
If you fish a 4 weight line on a 2 weight rod, is that ultra-light fishing and you're just overlining? I'm not trying to start any controversy here, just thinking that the only definition i've seen is fishing with a rod that is classified by the manufactorer as being a 000 to a 3 weight. Well, a beginning point, I have an early fenwick graphite rod that is classified by Fenwick as a 3 weight; its a nine footer, but weighs almost 5 ounces; great little rod, but it ain't a 3; I think its a heavy 4 and fish either a 4 weight or 5 weight line on it.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:05 am • # 2 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 4828
I don't see the need to put everything UL under a microscope and try to split atoms here. Up until Sage came out with the 0, 00, 000wt rods, it was the 1, 2, 3, and even the 4wt rods that were UL. Andy brought up a good point on the one thread over at warm fly that the difference between a 0wt, and a 1wt is 6 grains, not 20 grains like is standard. A 1wt weighs 60 grains and the 0wt is 54 grains. I'll have to look up the weights for the 00, and 000wt. All the ought weights are proprietary Sage stuff, they designed it all. So to be technical the 0wt at 54 grains is nothing more than a light 1wt, as it should fall within the allowable weight variation one can get with a 1wt line.

Bill Byrd's new deffinition of UL rods being 1wt down to 000wt, and 2/3wts as now only being light rods is just his opinion, one that I don't share by the way. I was fishing 3wt rods before the ought weights came out, and that was UL. It still is. My personal opinion is that the Sage ought weight stuff is more marketing hype than any kind of AFFTA standard. As for the AFFTA standard, I'm not sure there is one for ought weight lines. I could be mistaken though. I'll have to research it.

I'm not trying bash ought weight users here so please don't go off on me. I'm just trying to put out some info here.

J.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:30 am • # 3 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 4828
I just looked up the weights for 00/000wt lines. The 00wt is 43 grains, and the 000wt is 32 grains. Make up your own mind about these I guess. The 0wt is 54 grains ( a light 1wt), the 1wt is 60 grains, the 2wt is 80 grains, the 3wt is 100 grians, the 4wt is 120 grains. There is the standard of 20 grains difference between all the lines weights up to and including the 6wt. Sage didn't adhere to that 20 difference when designing the ought weights.

You can check this PDF out at the AFFTA site. http://www.affta.com/medi...fly_line_weight_specs.pdf

J.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:04 am • # 4 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 5497
I wouldn't know where to start except if you like it fish it. I tried a Sage 00 once and thought it was cool, but i wasn't motivated to buy one.
Les


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:25 am • # 5 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/20/08
Posts: 594
Good discussion topic in light of what happened here on another thread earilier in the week.

Do we stick with rods and tackle based upon the manufacturer's stated line weight? So that a fast graphite 2wt that by definition is ultralight due to the label on the rod, but feels like a 4 weight isn't considered ultralight based upon feel? Or a slow 4wt 'glass rod (like my honey Lami) that by the label isn't UL but feels like a 3wt so it WOULD be considered UL?

See where I'm going?

Do we base UL on labels or on feel....knowing that different people have different feels (or opinions)?

David


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:28 am • # 6 
User avatar
Jr. Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 59
jkurtz7 wrote:
I just looked up the weights for 00/000wt lines. The 00wt is 43 grains, and the 000wt is 32 grains. Make up your own mind about these I guess. The 0wt is 54 grains ( a light 1wt), the 1wt is 60 grains, the 2wt is 80 grains, the 3wt is 100 grians, the 4wt is 120 grains. There is the standard of 20 grains difference between all the lines weights up to and including the 6wt. Sage didn't adhere to that 20 difference when designing the ought weights.

You can check this PDF out at the AFFTA site. http://www.affta.com/medi...fly_line_weight_specs.pdf

J.
You can't look at it this way. By this definition a 000 would weigh the same as air. From 15-wt down to 3-wt the average reduction in line weight between each line class is 13% but as you get below a 3-wt you get the following:

3-wt to 2-wt - 20% reduction
2-wt to 1-wt - 25% reduction
1-wt to 0-wt - 10% reduction
0-wt to 00-wt - 20% reduction
00-wt to 000-wt - 26% reduction

So in some cases the relative reduction is almost 2 line classes. The reduction from 1-wt to 0-wt in % terms is more that the reduction from 15-wt to 14-wt and 14-wt to 13-wt.


Last edited by Highlander on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:44 am • # 7 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1359
wierd stuff: out of curiosity I decided to put the ERN test on an old 8'6" wright/McGill Holiday fiberglass rod which I redid some time back. It was originally rated a 6 weight. On the ERN scale, the rod tests at 3.57; I now have an ultralight bass rod!!!!!(just kidding)


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:56 am • # 8 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 12/18/08
Posts: 127
Highlander, an excellent way of looking at it. If the gap between 4 and 3 is around 13 % then the argument could be made that the 3 to 2 wt. step is where ultralight begins. It could also be made that there's not a whole lot of difference below three weight, or that the 20 grain step down is ends a 0 wt so that's where it begins. Of course, some fly line maker will produce a 0 wt labeled line that will weigh out as a 2 wt, etc.

For me its a three weight, but that happens to be my smallest set up. On much of the water I fish a 5 wt is as low as I'll go. But then if I'm fishing a 7x tippet on my 5 wt line that's where am I then? Its a fun discussion but I don't know if it has an end............Image


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:57 am • # 9 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 3185
Location: Texas
Fun topic!

I think the definition varies from person to person. If you've fished 5-7 weights all your life and move down to a little 7' 3 wt it probably feels like a UL rod. If you've been fishing a 4 weight for years and go to a 3 weight you probably won't feel like you all the sudden went from light to ultra-light gear.

I've fished a 8'9" 3 weight a few times recently, and it doesn't feel like a UL rod to me just because of the length and actual weight--3 oz. On the other hand I have a 6'9" 4 wt that weighs about 1.8 oz and it *does* feel like a UL rod. Of course if I was fishing glass or bamboo the same 3 oz would be a pretty light little rod.

I've admitted more than once that I have a weakness for marketing and if that's all that the ought weights are then it's cool with me. I really like my little 6' 0 weight and it *does* feel a lot different than my 1 weight but maybe just because it's shorter and lighter. As long as we're having fun who really cares, ya know. When it comes to buying new rods it doesn't take much of an excuse to make me whip out the checkbook. :-) Just waiting for a deal on a 000 wt.

Jerry


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:29 am • # 10 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 12/22/11
Posts: 1602
Hmm...I have mentioned this exact argument on multiple forums, beginning with WarmFly, FAOL, Free State Fly Fishers, North American Fly Fishing, etc. and when I mention that the meaning of ultralight is rod weights less than a 2wt, I get the same response, light rods kill fish. You should use a 5wt. I was even told by the owner of the local fly shop that only God could cast a 1wt. I define ultralight as anything 2 line weights lighter than the party line (5wt).


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:56 am • # 11 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/20/08
Posts: 594
You too Andy?

I won't even begin to discuss rods lighter than 5wt on the other board I frequent (less these days) due to the nasty responses I'll get......both publicly and privately.

David


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:17 am • # 12 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 12/22/11
Posts: 1602
I get those too...which is why I haven't been on there.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:19 am • # 13 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1359
I remember when i built my first little lite rod; a 7'9" 3 weight; I went to the lake and was fishing a bed of big redear and having a blast; then along came a big bass and ate my little grub and it took off. I was so afraid this big Mama was going to break my little rod. I tried my best to shake the fish off, but the fly was hooked deep, so i had to land her; great feeling to land a 4.5 pound largemouth on a 3 weight. i beat my chest like Tarzan and gave a couple of whoops. I was hooked.
Later that same year i was fishing a brim bed up on Caddo and another big bass got on; it ran up in the cypress trees and i knew i had to break her off; and i tried, but couldn't even though i had 6# tippet. She turned around and came back out of the cypress trees and gave up the ghost. She weighed a little more than 8 pounds on my zebco de-liar(good name). So, to heck with the NAY-SAYERS; a 3 weight rod will handle a big fish; 6# tippet is harder to break than you think; and if you break a rod, what lies you can tell afterwards!!!!!!!


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:30 am • # 14 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 11/20/08
Posts: 594
AMEN Gene!!!

My goal for the upcoming year is to tie into some larger bass using my 3wt and upcoming 2wt. I think the heavier tackle will be gathering some dust.

BTW - Have you received your Dorber blank yet?

David


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:35 am • # 15 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 12/22/11
Posts: 1602
I am psyched to go creeking with my 7'6 2wt, but fear I may need a shorter rod.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:53 am • # 16 
User avatar
Jr. Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 59

I realize that "ultralight" means different things to different people, but since this is an ultralight forum why don't we come up with our own definition.

It would have to include reference to both rod and line.

How about a fishing a rod rated by the manufacturer to be 3-wt or less, casting a line which weighs less than 100 grains over the first 30 feet of line, not including the level tip. Thoughts?



Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:03 am • # 17 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 3185
Location: Texas
I think J and Andy kind of came up with a definition already:

"Ultralight Fly Fishing, The Forum for those who love to fish ultralight fly rods from 000wt to 3wt"

a little more generic than your idea Highlander, but still narrows it down nicely. I think this UL forum might be more of a frame of mind than specific rod/line weights. A hangout for guys who are tired of taking abuse for fishing cool light gear Image


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:09 am • # 18 
User avatar
Jr. Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 59
jdub wrote:
I think this UL forum might be more of a frame of mind than specific rod/line weights. A hangout for guys who are tired of taking abuse for fishing cool light gear Image
Truer words have never been spoken, it is absloutely a frame of mind.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:01 pm • # 19 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 186
Just so everyone knows where I stand (since i've been raising lots of questions about ultra-light fishing). I consider myself an ultra-light fisherman. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can do to protect the fish that I'm returning to the water. I've caught some very large fish on very light line and I love it.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:35 pm • # 20 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 11/19/08
Posts: 104

I frequently fish a 4 and 5 wt lines on my 3wt rods. I hope that means I'm still welcome to post questions, reports and pictures on here. Many of you know that I also fish 4, 5. 6,7 and 8 weight rods but for this forum, I'll limit it the discussions to the 3wt and under range, like the forum was designed for. Please don't change the rules! So far I haven't taken any flack from any other forums for talking about using light rods like a lot of you have. I could care less what they think anyways. Its fishing, its supposed to be fun.



Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next   Page 1 of 3   [ 49 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


- OurBoard Support -