It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:16 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




  Page 1 of 1   [ 18 posts ] New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:17 pm • # 1 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
In last times I'm making experiments with my rods: I measured the tip of the butts and I found that for my 2 preferred rods is identical.
Then I tried the tip of one on the butt of the other and vice-verse. And the results are interesting!

My preferred rods are the American Takle Matrix 662-2 with tip and butt parts same lengths, ern 1,92 and AA 55, then an ultralight moderate rod;
and the Pacific Bay 793-2 that I cut the butt to have a 6,6". Then the butt, disassembled, is about 80 centimetres (2' 8") and the tip about 120 centimetres (4").
The tip amtack on the butt pacbay makes a 5',6" rod ern 3,70 AA 70, I tried it and in fact is a fast short rod perfect with a #3 for small streams;
the tip Pacbay with the butt Amtack makes a 7'6" rod, ern 1,70, AA 65, then a very light rod in the #1 range and pretty fast. I didn't tried it yet, but it seems a good ultralight rod for larger streams.

In this way from 2 rods I obtained 4 different rods, very different each other and ready to cover several different situations.


Last edited by zigo on Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:25 pm • # 2 
User avatar
Jr. Member

Joined: 11/04/13
Posts: 91
Location: Lincolnshire, IL, North of Chicago
I think you have too much time on your hands!

Seriously, it's a very clever idea. I wonder how often the ferrules will match up like that.


Top
  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:21 pm • # 3 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
...time is never too much if you are active and creative. And if you are not forced to use all it for life's needs :)
Rod building is a winter hobby, it takes me a minimal fraction of my time.
And this idea takes you few minutes to try it if you don't have dozens of rods.

This "idea" gave me another idea: use the butts of these 2 rods, or even other rods, to make other very cheap rods making only the tips and using tips like these http://www.tatfishing.com/nsct.html or these http://www.tatfishing.com/kcim,-elct,-34c.html . With a very little investment you will have different length rods for different lines with different actions. In this way you can create even rods that doesn't exist on the market or try to reproduce rods long, ern and AA very close to rods who cost hundreds of dollars.
It's a long time, for example, that I wish a rod 5", for #1 or #2 moderate-fast action. Or rods for real #0 or #0,5 lines. They doesn't exist on the market, in this way with less that 10 euro I can have the blank to create them.
I will publish in rod building some different experiments.


Top
  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:57 pm • # 4 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
Roberto,

Good luck on your quest! Of course, once you are successful in building a rod or two for a real 0-weight (or even lower), your next quest may be coming up with a really suitable line for it.


Top
  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:06 pm • # 5 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
Roberto,

Good luck on your quest! Of course, once you are successful in building a rod or two for a real 0-weight (or even lower), your next quest may be coming up with a really suitable line for it.

Thanks Pete.
I absolutely agree with you. I was thinking to dyneema, as we just told in another thread, but I'm planning to treat it to create a flexible coat over it, instead of simple vaseline oil and red mucilin, to make it a little less soft. I think that ultralight lines if are too soft are more difficult to control and to cast.
What about you? Are you making experiments with real #0 lines? What weight do you consider for a real #0? 40±6 grains?
ciao
Roberto


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:35 am • # 6 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
It seems that a few years ago Sage did us a favor by breaking a paradigm and getting us to believe that fly lines and rods can be lighter than a 1-weight.

Whether or not a true 0-weight line exists, or for that matter exactly what it should be, is quite debatable. Here is a web-site which provides some apparently new information on the subject. www.byrdultrafly.com/sagelines.htm

It probably won't work as a link, but you can copy and paste the url address. The author's point of view is interesting.

Even so, for sake of clarity, maybe we should just start referring to lines below 1-weight by their actual weight in grains over the first 30 feet. And there is no reason not to experiment with rods and lines that are much lighter.

Some of the lines that I have used are twisted (furled) nylon. There is an area in my yard to strectch out 45 feet of line to treat it with a coating. The length of 45' is long enough for my purposes and makes it easy to calculate the line weight for thirty feet. A length of 60 feet would probably be even better. If you fill your dyneema line with a couple coats of linseed oil, allowing it to dry some between coats, followed by a couple coats of spar varnish to add stiffness, and then dress it with mucilin, you may have good very good results. I don't know how compatible spar varnish would be with vaseline.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:43 pm • # 7 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
It seems that a few years ago Sage did us a favor by breaking a paradigm and getting us to believe that fly lines and rods can be lighter than a 1-weight.

Whether or not a true 0-weight line exists, or for that matter exactly what it should be, is quite debatable. Here is a web-site which provides some apparently new information on the subject. http://www.byrdultrafly.com/sagelines.htm

It probably won't work as a link, but you can copy and paste the url address. The author's point of view is interesting.

Even so, for sake of clarity, maybe we should just start referring to lines below 1-weight by their actual weight in grains over the first 30 feet. And there is no reason not to experiment with rods and lines that are much lighter.

Some of the lines that I have used are twisted (furled) nylon. There is an area in my yard to strectch out 45 feet of line to treat it with a coating. The length of 45' is long enough for my purposes and makes it easy to calculate the line weight for thirty feet. A length of 60 feet would probably be even better. If you fill your dyneema line with a couple coats of linseed oil, allowing it to dry some between coats, followed by a couple coats of spar varnish to add stiffness, and then dress it with mucilin, you may have good very good results. I don't know how compatible spar varnish would be with vaseline.


Sage are very good sellers, but they didn't invented a different way to measure fly lines then AFTMA. They made only a lot of confusion, they simply renamed three #1 aftma lines to sell more lines and rods. But the result is only that they made confusion in consumers.
If you read here viewtopic.php?f=68&t=4151 you can see that 0wt, 00wt and 000wt by Rio/Sage are all #1 wt in AFTMA with very little differences. I own a qdt1 by Sage and it's a #2 in AFTMA. I own even the lightest, the 3/0, I weighted it and for me it's 61 grains, then a #1.
AFTMA is a very simple way to standardize fly lines, it's logical, objective, simple, like a measure standard must be, to can compare things measured everywhere and by everybody and I think it's absolutely satisfying.
Sage's is totally illogical, absolutely subjective, creates only confusion: when I bought the qdt 1 and I have seen that it was a light #2 I felt myself cheated. I was looking for a #1, not a Sage's #1 who is a #2. When I bought the 000 I was looking at least for a 40 grains line, not for a #1 more expensive that another "normal" #1 and even worst, because it's a line with a lot of memory. Not a good line for me.
Is like go in a bar, ask a glass of bourbon and they give you a glass of beer calling it "Sage's bourbon"....

I needed ask you "what do you mean with #0" because "somebody" introduced illogical measurements for his own business who created only a lot of confusion.

Returning to us, how does your #0 lines weight in the first 30 feet?


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:37 pm • # 8 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
I quite understand what you mean and basically agree, but only included the url address of that article because it appears to bring out some new information.

To answer your question, "Returning to us, how does your #0 lines weight in the first 30 feet?" let's answer like this. I don't know if I have a #0 line because of the ambiguity, and some files including that information are now inaccesible in my hard drive. But going from memory, one of my lines weighs in at 54 grains, and another weighs in at 34 grains. There is yet another (my first attempt) that is a 2-weight.


Top
  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:50 am • # 9 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
I quite understand what you mean and basically agree, but only included the url address of that article because it appears to bring out some new information.

To answer your question, "Returning to us, how does your #0 lines weight in the first 30 feet?" let's answer like this. I don't know if I have a #0 line because of the ambiguity, and some files including that information are now inaccesible in my hard drive. But going from memory, one of my lines weighs in at 54 grains, and another weighs in at 34 grains. There is yet another (my first attempt) that is a 2-weight.


The 34 grains is really interesting (it seems, for my ideas of a line weight, a "light #0"): did you weigh it before your treatment? How did it weighs before?
About the rod you use with it, is it a commercial rod? In case what is it? How long is it? Did you measure the ern and AA of the rod? Can you talk about your experiences with it, for example difficult in casting, distances...?
Sorry for all these questions :)
Thanks in advance!

Roberto


Top
  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:52 pm • # 10 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
Here is a report that was posted last summer (in the southern hemisphere) with some photos and a description of the rod

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=10018&p=81447&hilit=summertime+lambari#p81447

The AA never was measured, just the ERN, as that was what most interested me The line was weighed before and after coating with varnish, but as stated before, that information is inaccessible now As far as casting, it sets no distance records, nor does my casting ability It seems good out to about 30 feet, but being a level line, casting is different than with a tapered line


Top
  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:14 am • # 11 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
Here is a report that was posted last summer (in the southern hemisphere) with some photos and a description of the rod

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=10018&p=81447&hilit=summertime+lambari#p81447

The AA never was measured, just the ERN, as that was what most interested me The line was weighed before and after coating with varnish, but as stated before, that information is inaccessible now As far as casting, it sets no distance records, nor does my casting ability It seems good out to about 30 feet, but being a level line, casting is different than with a tapered line

Thankyou very much Pete!
Very nice report. They seem fishes of Ciprinidae family ( https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprinidae ) , that are diffused here too and catchables with files.
Your rod is in fiber? Do you remember the ern?I disagree with you about the AA: I think that faster rods are more effectives with ultralight lines, because if the line is fast is more powerful against wind. But I ever never tried so light lines, lightest lines I tried are sages 000, who are about 60 grains, and I will can be sure about that after that I will try it.
I'm not a great caster too, then I talk like "medium" caster.


Top
  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:17 pm • # 12 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
Actually, those fish are of the Astyanax family. According to Wikipedia "Astyanax is a genus of freshwater fish in the family Characidae of the order Characiformes."

Anyway, here is some additional info on the rod.
Tenkara type, 5’9”, loaded with 10 cents. ERN: 0.61. ELN = 33.3 grains or 2.15784 grams.
#8 twisted nylon line: 30’ untreated = 1 gram = 15.4323584 grains. 45’ treated with 3 coats spar varnish = 3.25 grams or 51 grains. 30’ = 34 grains (000 weight?)

As you can see from that, varnish basically doubled the weight, as well as making the line stiffer.

The inormation printed on the shaft of the rod reads, "Ottoni Fujiyama 1804, carbon 40%" According to that, and to the appearance, it must be a composite of 40% carbon fiber and 60% fiberglass. Most of the rod is hollow, except for the final section at the tip, which iappears to be solid fiberglass. As best I can measure, the tip seems to be 1 millimeter thick at the tiptop. The rod is a type that is sold in some stores here for bait fishing. It is apparently a Chinese knock-off of a Japánese type.

It cost me all of the equivalent of about $7.00 US, I had to buy three single-foot guides, the cork grip and cheap aluminum reel seat were leftovers, and the reel cost about $8.00. So the total investment must be around $30.00, and really does belong in the "Frugal Fisherman" section.


Top
  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:04 pm • # 13 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
Actually, those fish are of the Astyanax family. According to Wikipedia "Astyanax is a genus of freshwater fish in the family Characidae of the order Characiformes."


Absolutely another "planet", but it's incredible how it appears similar to these https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scardiniu ... ophthalmus or these https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutilus_aula .
They catch in the surface too?

Thanks for your informations, I own some of those reels too.
Please after the treatment your line floats or sink? After 3 coats the line seems have "memory". It's my impression? Compared with a commercial line it's stiffer?

Nice rod.


Top
  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:43 pm • # 14 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 519
Location: southern Brazil
Although I have never checked the action angle of the rod in question, it is in fact a fast action rod. Not that it is unimportant, just that my main concern was how to come up with a suitable line.

That twisted nylon line is used locally by commercial fishermen who use it to make their destructive nets. And yes, with 3 coats of varnish it does have some memory, which can be dealt with by manually stretching the first 10 or 15 feet before casting, just like nylon leaders. For me in a sub-tropical climate it's not much of an issue. If it were colder it possibly would be. Perhaps later on it will be worth experimenting with a coat or two of linseed oil and no more than two coats of varnish.

The dressing used is a silicone-based car wax! The line floats with the dressing, but after fishing a while it starts to sink slowly, like an intermediate line. That can actually be an advantage on still water when used with sunken flies, as it gets the line below the chop and keeps it from forming a belly.


Top
  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:41 pm • # 15 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 01/19/12
Posts: 204
Location: Italy
PampasPete wrote:
Although I have never checked the action angle of the rod in question, it is in fact a fast action rod. Not that it is unimportant, just that my main concern was how to come up with a suitable line.

That twisted nylon line is used locally by commercial fishermen who use it to make their destructive nets. And yes, with 3 coats of varnish it does have some memory, which can be dealt with by manually stretching the first 10 or 15 feet before casting, just like nylon leaders. For me in a sub-tropical climate it's not much of an issue. If it were colder it possibly would be. Perhaps later on it will be worth experimenting with a coat or two of linseed oil and no more than two coats of varnish.

The dressing used is a silicone-based car wax! The line floats with the dressing, but after fishing a while it starts to sink slowly, like an intermediate line. That can actually be an advantage on still water when used with sunken flies, as it gets the line below the chop and keeps it from forming a belly.


Thankyou very much!
I would like a perfectly floating line then I was thinking to try urethane varnishes in an oil mix, like danish oil, or similar.
But I wish try even neoprene glues, who are absolutely hydrophobic, elastic and lighter that water (specific weight 0,9). I will publish the results of the experiments.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year.
Roberto


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:51 am • # 16 
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 180
I have six and seven foot Cortland/Sharpes bamboo that share same size ferrules. One combination makes a neat little 6 1/2' Parabolic.

Barry


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:36 am • # 17 
User avatar
Jr. Member

Joined: 11/04/13
Posts: 91
Location: Lincolnshire, IL, North of Chicago
I just put all my rods together in the corner, and then every few weeks, there's another one that appears there. At least, that's what I tell my wife.


Top
  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:54 pm • # 18 
User avatar
Hero Member

Joined: 02/27/12
Posts: 1956
Location: Chicopee, MA
weiliwen wrote:
I just put all my rods together in the corner, and then every few weeks, there's another one that appears there. At least, that's what I tell my wife.


Fly rods are related to coat hangers. Same thing happens with them when you close the closet door. :lol


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

  Page 1 of 1   [ 18 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


- OurBoard Support -