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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:57 pm • # 1 
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Just wondering does this fit into ultralight definition? Loop's 5/6 spey calims to be ultralight while some other Japanese companies have similar stuff going on, anybody into spey can share some lights?


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:31 pm • # 2 
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Beulah makes a 5 wt spey rod and a 4/5 switch rod: http://www.beulahflyrods....rods/switchrods4-5wt.php


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:56 pm • # 3 
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I really like the ultralight two handed rods.
My present collection has the following:

TFO 11ft 4wt Deer Creek Switch
Sage 12ft 5wt SLT
Sage 11ft 5wt Z-Axis Switch
Sage 12.5 ft 5 wt Z-Axis

TFO will introduce this spring a 12.5ft 4/5wt Deer Creek.

Now these line ratings are not the same as single hand AFTMA line weights.
The two handed rods will have 1/2 the line head on the water and the other 1/2 casting with the rod.

Regards,
FK


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:10 pm • # 4 
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There is a Zpey 3wt switch rod. It's called the Lean Green. http://www.zpey.com/produkt.asp?p=20483&c=362&c2=606


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:03 pm • # 5 
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I have a rebuild/repair of a Meiser 12'6" 3/4/5 that is just about ready to come off the dryer. Hopefully it'll see water yet this year!

Meiser's current lineup includes a 3/4 and a 4/5, plus all of his design input on the TFO DeerCreek rods. Gary Anderson also has a 4 weight.

I think the two-handed world is just now getting to the point that there are "ultralight" options. It's hard for me to think of them as such though, when my 3/4/5 weight will throw lines up to 400 grains. That's stretched over 55' rather than 30' but still equates to a bit heavier than my 8 weight line.

I'm tempted to build up one of the Batson switch rods, as well. They're rated with the single-hand ratings and they have a 5 weight. I also haven't given up the dream of calling CTS and getting a 12' 0 wt built, but then I'll have to find water to use it!


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:56 pm • # 6 
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Is there a consensus on what constitutes a UL two-handed rod, at least for this forum? Given that all of the two-handers and most of the switch rods are not rated for singlehand line (AFTMA), it's hard to compare straight across. Obviously a switch rod built on a 10ft 3wt blank would qualify, but what about a 3/4 weight two-hander that casts the equivalent of an 8weight fly line?

I ask because I don't want to start posting about something that doesn't interest the forum members. My personal opinion - anything 5 weight or under for two-handers would be classified as ultralight, but a 4 or 5 weight switch rod wouldn't.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:12 pm • # 7 
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Joby,
I would like to learn more as I know nothing of this area.
Les


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:42 pm • # 8 
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Same here, I am also curious about the line set up for UL two hand since I douno anyone who fish with a 3wt two hander


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:20 am • # 9 
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In that case - let's "on with the show!"

First - a disclaimer - I am in no means an expert, nor even a competent caster of two-hand rods. I picked it up about three years ago for a few very specific fishing situations when I was living in Arkansas. I then moved to Northern Alberta for a year. To put it mildly - nobody in either of the places I fished was available for teaching. As such, I had to rely for the online community and DVDs for all of my learning. Never-the-less: I have been able to catch fish ranging from 12" rainbows to 10+ pound pike and even a nice White River brown that the calculators say was around 13 pounds. UL two-handers have enough reserve for the big guys, but you can still actually feel the smaller trout, all the while fishing lighter tippet.

First - I posted the re-build of my two hander here: http://ultralightflyfishing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?&t=2298 It is a 3/4/5 weight rod. The classification system tends to be pretty wide for two-handers because of the wide range of lines that these rods can throw. The two-handed world seems to be moving away from line ratings towards offering grain weights windows. This rod, for instance, is best suited for casting lines ranging from 200 to 400 grains total in the head.

Two-handed rods (much more than single-handers) are extremely sensitive to line choices. Some rods appear to be absolute dogs until you find *just* the right line for them. I'm currently using a 360 grain Rio Windcutter II line with about a 55' head. This is on the upper end for the basic casting, but it allows me to load the rod and feel it with less of the head out there. Once I improve my casting abilities, I'll most likely want a lower weight line.

That's the basic, so far. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Like I said - I did most of my learning online from two very useful sites. I don't want to hijack this forum by posting here, but if you're interested you can PM me and I'll send you links. They're really not that hard to find, though.

I hope this is a good enough post to start the ball rolling and help you come up with questions.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:25 pm • # 10 
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That is a great post on two handers. I do use my single hand rods to spey alot. I'm still trying to come up with a blank that I think will work for a 1wt line and then I'm going to make my own line for it. I'm looking at the Dober 10' 1wt. I know it is real slow but I think it will work.
As for ul spey I agree with Joby you can't use the same defintion for single hand as two hand. If you want to say any rod 3wt and under whether single, two hand, saltwater, freshwater etc. That would work and make it simple.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:43 pm • # 11 
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John - I've been eyeing that Dorber blank myself for a year or so. I'm thinking of putting in a 4"-6" extension to stiffen up the butt a touch, but the slower action should really suit some of t. The upper grip is going to have to be extremely petite to avoid dampening the rod too much. If you pull the trigger before I do, I want to know how it goes. I'm thinking about calling Dorber and seeing if they could extend the blank to 11' or so.
Of course, if money were no object, I'd call up CTS and get one rolled.

I tend to think of a 4/5 weight two-hander as UL - but a simple "3 weight" rule for UL classifications makes great sense.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:40 am • # 12 
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Location: Lorain, Ohio but can be found in fishing waters of West by God West Virginia and southern Ohio.
Seen this the other day so had to sign up to chime in on this subject. I am not relative new with uL fly rodding and have been catching some nice fishs on anything below 3wt SH and 4wt DH rod. I have a decho 4wt Spety rod that has been a wonderful rod unlike most rods in 5wt or larger which tends to be a bit faster. Ihave also tchecked out a 3wt switcher made by Loop but it more like a fast action rod. Now if you seriously want a real 3wt Spey Rod then look no further than Gary Anderson Custom Rods(ACR). He make one that i am in awe but only if I had the money. Beulah was talking about making a 3wt also but hasn't done so yet as he think there is not enough intersts yet to produce them, but I see that changing. I am weaiting as I heard a rumor a while back that ACR may make a 2 wt Spey rod which is what I am holding out for, but til then my 4wt Decho get a lot of time on the water.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:15 am • # 13 
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Welcome to the UL Forums Phish.

J.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:36 pm • # 14 
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well, how about the functionality of an ultralight spey? As far as i know, spey casting are usually for casting longer distance with larger flies, then how does it apply to ultralight fishing? less energy to cast the line out for a long period of time? Longer distance? upsize flies? possibility to handle much larger fish?


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:32 am • # 15 
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Those are definitely advantages of spey casting, though not the only ones. There are two really big benefits that I see for UL fishing.
1 - Less effort and impact on joints from casting all day. More than one angler has had to give up conventional fly fishing because shoulder injuries (or the like) simply will not allow them to cast all day anymore. Spey casting has no false casts and the rod is doing the vast majority of the work.

2 - The biggest advantage: less need for room behind you. Depending on the style you use, you can cast past fishing distances with as little as 5-10 feet clearance behind you.

Of course, you also have a fantastic mending ability with the long rod, if you so need it. Also, the fishing style is simply fun and enjoyable. It's a nice changeup from conventional fly fishing.

It is #2 that makes me consider the opportunity for UL switch rods more than anything else. There are a couple of local streams where the tree and brush growth have me roll casting all day until I've waded nearly halfway across the fishable water.

Ultimately, UL spey will probably be limited by the lack of waters that demand it. There are a few places on the White river in Arkansas (Bull Shoals, Beaver tailwater, shad-kill season) that were begging for it. The heavier UL rods (3/4 weights) actually have more backbone than needed to land 10 pound steelhead, so you'll begin to see UL anglers there. Finally, wade fishing stillwater shallows with shooting heads and streamers is a blast and lets you cover more water than otherwise possible without a boat.

This is just a list of my uses for the rods. They're actually quite versatile - even to the point of nymphing with an indicator (shhhh don't tell) if the situation so calls for it. Even though there isn't too much water out there that you need UL spey - there is a *ton* of water where it could be very efficient.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:49 am • # 16 
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Very thoughtful discussion. I have an inherent bias against UL speys, only because I tend to think "fairy wands" rather than "wizard staffs" in connection with UL. I had thought that using 2 hands would lessen some of the casting strain, but the learning curve was steep enough to keep me from appreciating the advantage. I also have a tendency to fish in close, so a longer cast is rarely an advantage. I don't even roll cast as often as I should. I would love to see an accomplished caster working a 12 foot 2 weight. I agree that a switch rod might provide a relatively painless introduction. Please keep us posted. Don


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:48 pm • # 17 
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Location: Lorain, Ohio but can be found in fishing waters of West by God West Virginia and southern Ohio.
JobyKSU covered it quite well. I got 3 spey rods but the the 4wt Decho is what I am always using. At times when water level are low is when it is overkill and I will go back to a SH rod. Another great thing is that when water levels are high or where you want to fish sections of river where it's to dangerous to wade. Longer rod will fight a fish with lighter tippets which I have gone down to 8X on the Elk River in WV. I know one thing though I am single spey casting on my 0wt sage rod and my roll casting has improved tremendously on my SH rods.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:30 pm • # 18 
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Thanx Joby for answering all my questions since i know nothing about spey, all spey fishermen I know up here in Vancouver are targeting on Spring Salmons and steelheads mostly, which I am not particularly interested. They told me ultralight in spey is a 5wt.

btw, here's some intro to spey vid i found on Japanese Shimano sites for lake and beach, targeting Jp Dollies if it's helpful
http://tv.shimano.co.jp/movie/others/first_step_04/

but here comes the other question, How wind resistance is UL spey or spey in general compare to single hander? I kinda assume they are pretty much the same.


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:16 pm • # 19 
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A 5wt really is borderline for UL. It's all relative, and when you consider that many west coasters use 8/9 or even 10/11 weight rods, 5 begins to seem pretty light! Of course, some of the flies they throw can best be described as "dead chickens" (wish I had come up with that description!) that will go absolutely nowhere on a 5wt.
Quote:
How wind resistance is UL spey or spey in general compare to single hander? I kinda assume they are pretty much the same.


A 4/5 weight spey line has the same weight as about an 8 weight single hander, so in general, they are much more wind resistant. My 3/4/5 can cast #6 double-bunnies and 2/0 pike flies without too many problems. Casting into the wind or with the wind are much less likely to cause as many problems as with singlehanders, as you don't have to worry about your loop crumpling behind you. Of more concern are sidewinds: Trying to use the "single spey" cast (as opposed to the double spey) with a stiff downstream wind can really ruin your day.

The problems I have had are snapping tippet: the casts create so much sudden force and line speed that a decent sized fly will snap off on the forward stroke (much like a two-dollar whip snap on your backcast).


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 Post subject: ultralight two hand?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:55 am • # 20 
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Location: Lorain, Ohio but can be found in fishing waters of West by God West Virginia and southern Ohio.
I got a airflo 7wt 40+ fly line on my 4wt Decho, It does not like large heavy weighted flies well but it will get it out there. I have lost a lot of good flies popping them off with the line speed but I found it was neccesary to use heavier tippets and slow down some to enjoy casting of moderate action DH. Their are many different casting strokes with difeerent people casting diferent ways that finding the the right set up is key to your personal enjoyment.


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