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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:22 pm • # 21 
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Hey Cowpokey, how ya been man, haven't heard from ya in awhile...
Thought maybe you went fishing up north at the Chosin reservoir and
Decided the fishing was better on the other side of 38th parallel or DMZ ...
Maybe taken your Harley on a road trip all the way to fish in the Yalu river ...

Paul :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:40 pm • # 22 
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Gentlemen And i use that term loosely ....

JoeC took an 18" Brown on 6x last week using the
Davy knot ...what better test for the integrity of the knot
Is there? CASE CLOSED ...... I'm sticking with then plain ole
Ugly Davy knot .......it serves me well ....

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:58 pm • # 23 
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Chris, looking at the Cross Creek it appears to be the same as the Orvis but without the additional second feed through the last loop. I personally use the Orvis or mono loop. The Davy knot failed me once or twice so reverted to the Orvis. I will definately try the Cross Creek as it does not require the second feed which can be tricky sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:12 pm • # 24 
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linecaster wrote:
Chris, looking at the Cross Creek it appears to be the same as the Orvis but without the additional second feed through the last loop. I personally use the Orvis or mono loop. The Davy knot failed me once or twice so reverted to the Orvis. I will definately try the Cross Creek as it does not require the second feed which can be tricky sometimes.


You're right, it's very similar to the Orvis knot but with one less move. I used the Orvis knot for years and was fairly happy with it. Tried the Davy and wasn't happy with it. Then the CC knot. I liked the CC best. Orvis knot had a few failures, Davy had many failures and CC has had one failure. Though, as been mentioned many times above, everyone's mileage varies and it basically boils down to what you're comfortable with. The CC makes the most sense to me as I've used figure 8 style knots for a long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:19 pm • # 25 
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I'm like Blu; i give the fishys a 50/50 chance with my knot tying but as my eyes get weaker I use my forceps to tie my knot. I just make a loop in the line with fly in the loop; insert my forceps; make 4 or 5 twists; grab the tag end with my forceps and pull it thru the twists; moisten and pull tight; thats my knot; works fine; never lost a world record while fishing it(ahem!!)I dont think it has a scientific name; maybe just a cinch knot-p-


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:26 pm • # 26 
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I with pearow...gotta use them forceps!


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:31 pm • # 27 
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Another thing I like about the Davy knot vs. say the Clinch knot is that it is loose until the final moment of tightening and supposedly does not develop the heat associated with normal knot tightening. I usually just grab the end of the leader with my teeth and draw up on the leader end to tighten. This leaves a tag of about a half inch, without wetting the leader. In doing this I can tie the knot using plenty of tippet in the making of the loop size and it all gets drawn back to the leader side when I tighten the knot.

I think overall any of the knots available for fishing are good. It is a matter of preference and ease of tying based on an individuals style of knot tying and physical challenges they might have.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:41 pm • # 28 
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I'm with JoeC again my best knot tying and cutting tool are my TEETH ...
Don't leave home without em ...(unless I leave em in the glass of water
Alongside my bed) .... Only kidding that day shall come also ....

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:31 am • # 29 
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Somehow, I really don't know what, but I managed to tie the Davy knot wrong twice last weekend. I didn't have any magnification with me, so it could have been a matter of the old man eyes kicking my arse. At any rate, I didn't loose a fly because of it, the tippet just pulled all the way back out when I went to cinch it down...which turned the last couple inches of tippet into a spiral each time. I haven't tried to replicate what happened to try and figure it out, but even as simple as the Davy is, it can be done incorrectly and not hold.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:40 am • # 30 
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Panfisher1 wrote:
Hey Cowpokey, how ya been man, haven't heard from ya in awhile...
Thought maybe you went fishing up north at the Chosin reservoir and
Decided the fishing was better on the other side of 38th parallel or DMZ ...
Maybe taken your Harley on a road trip all the way to fish in the Yalu river ...

Paul :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

Been ok, I planned on going east in search of Lenok and Cherry Trout, but the weather has been crap. I took the whole week off last week and it rained everyday. Now we have the remnants of a typhoon moving out, with what's left of a second one headed our way day after tomorrow. So, I haven't gotten much fishing done, and haven't been on the bike for a week and a half. :'(


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:09 pm • # 31 
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Cowpokey,
Hang in there my friend better days r a comin, getting to feel little like fall
Here in the PAC NW....temps at night low 40's ..will be perfect time to
Fish the big rivers for good size Trout in a few weeks....always my favorite and
Most productive time for fly fishing in this part of the country ....we had a couple of trips called off here in Oregon due to forest fires and smoke conditions, one I was really looking forward to was a float trip down the John Day river fishing for smallmouth bass for four days ...ah maybe next season ..would have been fun fishing for those smallies on UL fly tackle ...

Tight lines
Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:55 pm • # 32 
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I've been a big fan of the Davy Knot for years, and this topic was discussed awhile back (well before the BVK thread Panfisher alluded to). In that thread CBarclay brought up the knot Cross Creek had sent to him and related his lackluster experience with the Davy Knot. I honestly questioned him regarding it, as I had not experienced any of the problems he related, but I know a little about CBarclay and CC, so I didn't discount his information as being invalid.

Regardless, I continued to use the Davy without any issue... until this summer. About a month ago while fishing I lost a few fish "at the take" due to knot failure. These were not incorrectly tied knots, and I was able to replicate the condition that caused the failure. In each case, and in my subsequent "experiments" the knots failed when a sharp tug occurred. A steady pull seemed to have no ill effect, but a sharp tug caused failure almost every time.

Wondering why I hadn't experienced this previously, I contemplated what was different. The only thing I could come up with was the age of the tippet material and/or the way I was "dressing" the fly with Gink. I bought a fresh spool of tippet and tried my experiments again being careful not to "dress the knot". The result? Once again. No issues. Knots held perfectly.

I have no idea why, what, how, or if the age of the tippet actually played a role, or if the Gink is a super knot lubricant. But I can only assume that the material being used does matter, and you don't want to "grease" the knot with floatant. Since I've done those two things, I've again had no issues with the Davy Knot and still use it a lot. (Yes I am often too lazy to tuck the tag end in and "complete" the CC knot.) But I am convinced that CBarclay's comments have some validity. So be careful of just discounting them.

---David


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:12 pm • # 33 
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Hey David! It's great to see you around. Thanks for validating me - would you mind talking with my wife and employer? ;)
Your explanation makes a lot of sense about the lubricant, sharp tugs and tippet material. I remember when using the Davy knot that a sharp tug was what caused mine to fail when fishing and testing. At this point, I don't remember the age of the tippet but I used Feather-Craft brand fluoro and Orvis Super Strong.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:21 pm • # 34 
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I feel that a quick snap regardless of which knot is being used is the death toll for all of them. This is most likely to happen in normal situations when one is swinging a fly down and across the current. That is when those violent strikes take place and it alone is sometimes enough to break the knot or the addition of our reflexive hard set to the take. Either way knots are always tested with progressive pull until they break and unfortunately that is not often real world.


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:13 pm • # 35 
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David
Hmmmm. That's interesting, the tippet ruptured at the knot or the knot separated on a violent set .... I haven't found any knot that I can say for sure that I'd trust it's Integrity on a violent hook set ....i can't recall one instance in which the Davey knot has failed..
Any knot subject to that kind of stress on an initial physical reaction of setting a hook is IMHO a crap shoot ...the size, position, which way the fish was pulling all come into play with line and knot failures ..when someone invents a Failsafe knot I wana be one of the first to try it ....
Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:21 pm • # 36 
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If I may add ... I have found that Tippett material becomes brittle very quickly
And when initially hitting the fish with that violent action that becomes a critical factor in the equation ....

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:05 pm • # 37 
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Paul; that would be an interesting discussion; brittle tippet material; how long does it remain "fresh"? How often do you throw old tippet spools in the trash? are some brands longer lasting than others? when they put tippet material on sale, is it a good buy or is its usefulness limited by age? Maybe another/later thread would be interesting-p-


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:13 pm • # 38 
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I guess I wasn't clear.

For the record... I'm often accused of having no hook set, as I simply lift the rod tip and remove slack. No herky-jerky, or launching of a little fish into the stratosphere here. In my early days, that may have been the case, but I seriously doubt that anyone watching me fish today would accuse me of even an aggressive hook set. Timing and tension are what I'm all about. It's probably a detriment to my success as a warm water fisherman, but I'm still a cold water fisherman at heart, and my method serves me well there. Besides, old habits die hard.

Having said that, the issue presented itself when "skating" a dry. So the line was under tension, and when the fish hit it... Pop. The fly was instantly gone, and the "pig tail" in the tippet shows that the knot had pulled through.

If the line breaks at the knot (or anywhere else for that matter) then the tensile strength of the line has been exceeded. And while a knot usually decreases the tensile strength of a line (wind knots being some of the most notorious little devils) I don't consider that "knot failure". And that is not what I experienced. What I experienced was the knot "pulling through". It simply didn't hold. Hence part of my suspicion was that the Gink acted as a "super lubricant". Since then, I've made sure that the knot is cinched good and tight prior to applying any floatant. (As opposed to dressing the fly, then tying it on with "greasy fingers". Which saved me some spit, and actually worked really well as a lubricant... perhaps too well.)

Again, let me reiterate that I do not know what caused the condition or how it was truly remedied. I only know what I experienced and then replicated in a controlled environment. And I know what I did after that, which somehow resulted in a correction of the problem. Beats me as to what the true difference was/is.

---David


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:01 pm • # 39 
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In my case and I guess it's been years of fishing for big fish (old habits r definitely hard to break) and I may also attribute nymphing to the condition ..I have a tendency to horse the fish, in fact just the other day when fishing and catching small cutthroat Trout my fishing buddy remarked" Hey, this ain't the Bass pro tour, lighten up on your strikes" never realized I was doing it til Drew brought it to my attention ...Drew me boy, the professional fly fisherman that u r....its very easy to distinguish whether the knot came apart or the Tippett broke at the eyelet ... Sometimes i Clip the tag end to short, thats a recipe for disaster ...I know I do it & i get lazy, should re- tie and sure as **** the knot will come apart and I'll stand there cursing my self ...
The more I think about it David, you have lost very few fish, percentage wise in relation to the number of line or knot failures ..i would nt lose any sleep over it ...your well
within the ratio of success .....
Paul



Gp .... I agreed with you...it would make an great informational thread.....we
Should start one ..have found the more fish caught the less the
Structural integrity of Tippett material ...the more it is stretched the
Weaker it becomes losing its strength ...


Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Davy Knot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:58 pm • # 40 
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Like many of you, I've been fishing and boating for "several" decades, and have tried virtually every knot to grace the outdoor magazine pages. What led to my simplified version of the "Orvis" knot (not its original name), was the middle-aged need for glasses and good light for close work, neither of which is conveniently available on the water. My "figure eight on a bight" is very quick and easy to tie (a couple of seconds, even in the dark), can be used as a loop knot for bass bugging (until it closes when the fish takes), gets tighter as the fish pulls, rather than slipping, and is usually stronger than the other knots I've tried (don't know about flouro, since I don't uses it). It also doesn't leave the tippet curli-qued (sp) after you tighten it. I encourage everyone to try different knots until they find one (or more) they like and can easily tie in bad light, then worry about something else, like where the fish are!


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