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Panfisher1
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:23 pm • # 61 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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Wow...just got dizzy reading the directions for that knot ..with all the twists and turns and loops have no doubt it'll stop a locomotive....but like my bud JoeC we were looking for simplicity and strength ..also having a vision problem I find I can almost tie the Davy knot by feel its is that simple ..just a quick glance at the knot with my good eye, I can confirm i am ready to fish... Just caught a bunch of nice size Bluegills on a one weight with 6X tippet.. No sweat, no strain with the Davy knot ....
Paul
I really like the breaking strength chart tho, very good info ...
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DCG
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:19 pm • # 62 |
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Joined: 05/16/09 Posts: 2123
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MtRainier wrote: The best knot I have found so far is the San Diego Jam knot. It is a little harder to tie, but I am practicing at it. Try your own tests. Get some line that is just above your breaking strength. For me that was some 6 lb test line. I used a large streamer fly with a good sized hook. Most of the knots I tried I could easily break, but I couldn't break a 7 turn Jam knot. In this Field and Stream article they only use 6 turns, the one I learned uses 7. You can see some tests at: http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/ga ... hing-knots and here at the tippet shoot out. You have to look at their test charts that are at the bottom of the page to see the knot tests. http://www.flyfisherman.com/2012/05/07/ ... z2BALrUlfbIt is the last picture. Also in their tests the J knot beat out the triple surgeon for joining line. Whatever knot you use, lubricate it before you tighten and make sure that it is straight and not kinked when you tighten your knot. Gink works great for lubricating. I am an old dog.... but I can still learn new knots! I forgot to add the youtube video of the Jam knot. ( I am old!! ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pJh4ZxkyLgInteresting chart. I remember once reading an article of a famous angler whose name I forget, but he mentioned something that has stuck with me for years....the best knot to use (he was talking about attaching the hook to the line) is the one you can tie consistently right, all the time regardless of conditions. I guess I could learn a new knot to tie hooks to fishing line but you know, I have to say I have been fishing the Clinch Knot for almost 40 years under all kinds of conditions, with all kinds of applications, for all sizes of fish with all sizes of hooks.......and if it ever failed, it was more because of an over looked nick/abrasion in the line a wind knot or other laziness than due to the kind of knot. I see no reason to change and from the chart, it looks as though the clinch knot is all that bad.....with a number of knots being better and a whole bunch being worse. The thing to remember is to check the leader often for nicks or abrasions not to mention wind knots....and try to make a habit of retying often even if all seems well. I usually switch flies out frequent enough that it is just habit. Another reason I like the good ol clinch knot is you can retie many times without using up much tippet. Of course, no good knot can make up for lousy tippet material. I guess keeping break strength of tippet material at the knot that close to 100% is just not a huge concern of mine....quality of tippet material, a correctly tied knot and suitable heavy line strength to begin with not to mention, good rod, and drag if needed and fish playing skills play just as important role as the kind of knot used.
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Rasputinj
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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:23 am • # 63 |
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Joined: 10/28/12 Posts: 42
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my guess most of the time the issue is either poorly tied knot and/or abrasions to the tippet. The more confidence in whatever knot you are comfortable with also helps.
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Cowpokey
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:35 am • # 64 |
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Joined: 06/23/12 Posts: 1141 Location: Songtan, Korea
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Utah David wrote: Cowpokey wrote: That's a giant of a knot; compared to either the Davy or Cross Creek. I can't imagine having a knot that bulky and flinging tiny flies with the bug wand. I completely agree with this. And I love the "bug wand" reference. So I hope you don't mind if I begin using it Cowpokey without acknowledging where it came from. Besides, I might get more than a few raised eyebrows if I did use the disclaimer: "As Cowpokey says..." ---David I didn't coin the phase, I've seen it on a few different website and in a couple magazine articles.
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sberryreal
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Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:14 pm • # 65 |
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Jr. Member |
Joined: 03/05/13 Posts: 61 Location: Seattle, WA
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Thanks everybody for this discussion. I learned a lot. Goodbye improved cinch knot for me? Old habits die hard but I'm going to try all these knots out this season.
- Steve
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okimoto
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Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:24 pm • # 66 |
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Joined: 07/12/12 Posts: 987 Location: Georgia
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This is my go-to knot these days (particularly when it's cold). The other favorite is non-slip mono for streamers.
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blufloyd
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:28 am • # 67 |
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Joined: 09/06/11 Posts: 565
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I doubt the chart. I been davy knotting thru ice all winter no break offs on 1 and 2 lb test. That is with flouro and ice treated mono. doesn't seem to hold on super lines I own but I don't use them on flyrods.
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Panfisher1
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:11 am • # 68 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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Nothing better than practical application to find the integrity of knots, leaders, lines. Etc, funny that different people have different opinions on the strength of the knot ..... Myself, after years of going back and forth between 2-4 different knots have settled on the Davy knot, it has yet to fail me on any monofilament type lines I have used ...strong, quick tying, and most important is the simplicity of the knot ..i have very little vision left in my right eye, I can tie the knot by feel, it is God sent for people with visual impairment ....
Paul
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linecaster
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:30 pm • # 69 |
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Joined: 07/10/09 Posts: 1555 Location: Plano Texas
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Panfisher1 wrote: Nothing better than practical application to find the integrity of knots, leaders, lines. Etc, funny that different people have different opinions on the strength of the knot ..... Myself, after years of going back and forth between 2-4 different knots have settled on the Davy knot, it has yet to fail me on any monofilament type lines I have used ...strong, quick tying, and most important is the simplicity of the knot ..i have very little vision left in my right eye, I can tie the knot by feel, it is God sent for people with visual impairment ....
Paul I agree with you on simplicity, the San Diego jam knot may be good but trying to tie that on a small fly would be awkward. My peronal favorite is now the Cross Creek, and monoloop.
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Panfisher1
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:53 pm • # 70 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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LC ...looking at the SD jam knot you mention, it's pretty close to the "Uni Knot" ... I find on the braided lines or Nanofil I use the Palomar knot, why? Because they are recommended by the maker, no other reason, I just may use a Davy knot on the braid just to see what happens ....
Paul
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wabi
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:06 am • # 71 |
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Joined: 01/02/13 Posts: 645 Location: southern Ohio
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I've been using the Davy knot for a few years now and I really like it. Very simple to tie, very little waste of tippet (tag end is usually under 1" to be cut off), and good strength. I use it with both mono and flouro with no problems.
The "test of strength" I've used was only the % of fish landed without failure. Not scientific, no actual records kept, but very few failures and I can't say whether the knot itself failed or the tippet just snapped from wear or weakness in those very few failures when I lost the fly. Never any evidence of the knot itself unraveling ("curly" distorted line).
I did find it holds well if I give it a couple really good "tugs" before I cut the tag end off. Enough force to stretch the line seems to cinch it down very securely.
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Cross Creek
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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:53 pm • # 72 |
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Joined: 11/19/08 Posts: 1172 Location: Fayetteville, NC
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OMG, are you guys still putzing around with these silly knots? Spring fishing can't come soon enough!
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TurbineBlade
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:45 am • # 73 |
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Joined: 04/17/13 Posts: 87 Location: Alexandria, VA (DC)
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I see a lot of Davy knot love on here (and elsewhere online) but in practice I've found it to be a weak, inferior knot. It's weird, because it's almost like there's a fan club for this knot...and mechanically it's not very impressive. To me it looks like little more than a variation on the figure-8 knot...which I only trust for wire bite tippets in SW. Of all the knots out there I see no reason to learn this one. It's kind of like learning to half hitch versus using a whip finish or something.
If you want a STRONG knot that is a figure-8 variation and is easy to tie, use the Orvis knot. If you just are looking for a more reliable knot, try the uni, or trilene, or San Diego jam (above), or any of the legions of better knots than the Davy.
I use the uni knot for almost everything -- extremely reliable and probably the most versatile knot you can tie....especially since you can basically use it as a "quick nail knot" for your leader >> fly line connection in the field. You an also work it open to permit a loop knot for streamers very easily.
I've never broken a uni knot that I wasn't trying to break (from being hung on bottom...and then most often the line breaks before the knot).
For pure strength - just go through the eye 2X and you have the "fish-n-fool" knot...which won knot wars one year recently for high strength. I just don't see the need to go through the eye 2X, but the option is there.
My wife ties the improved clinch, but I have more trouble keeping the coils from crossing on the clinch knots...so I use the uni.
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Panfisher1
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:34 am • # 74 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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I don't know what Davy knot your using but for simplicity and knot strength And years of trial and error this is the knot I use for fly fishing Every day ..We were not looking for a mechanically impressive knot when we sought out this knot, we looked for strength and simplicity ..call it weird, ugly whatever..as you can see in this lengthly thread it has been tried and tested and it works for us..good luck with your others .. Welcome to the forum .... C&R enjoy the experience UV protection at all times
Paul
And I may add sir "there are legions of better knots" that is obviously Your personal opinion .....one of the few if any negative responses to The integrity of this knot I have heard ....you see no reason to learn it..don't !
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pearow
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:42 pm • # 75 |
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Joined: 11/18/08 Posts: 1359
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a poor knot is not such a bad thing; let the fish have a few flies to decorate their "trophy room". I've tied so many poor knots in my life I think I'm an expert. I like ole davy's knot, but I occasionally tie it wrong. I can mess up a polamar!!!! My view is to use the knot you like; don't be influenced by others; I'm working on a "pearow knot", which is 100% knot a good knot, but I'm working on it constantly-p-
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TurbineBlade
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:48 pm • # 76 |
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Jr. Member |
Joined: 04/17/13 Posts: 87 Location: Alexandria, VA (DC)
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I've watched most of the entire knots wars online, and read numerous reports of 'strongest fishing knots' from several publications (fly fisherman, midcurrent, books by Lefty, Jaworowski, etc.) and the knots I've commonly seen as among the strongest are the braid knot, palomar, eye crosser, fisn-n-fool, SD jam, etc. I've never seen the Davy mentioned anywhere other than fishing forums. And when it does get mentioned, there are legions of random people praising it (probably because it is easy) and about 7-8 who say something like "I don't see what is so special, this thing slips under moderate tension".
I'm in the latter. Easy is nice, but secure is better.
Sorry if you are the developer of it and you are offended. It's not personal -- this just needs to be in the thread some when some of these folks start using it and losing fish they'll recall this thread and maybe try something different.
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okimoto
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:54 pm • # 77 |
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Joined: 07/12/12 Posts: 987 Location: Georgia
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pearow wrote: a poor knot is not such a bad thing; let the fish have a few flies to decorate their "trophy room". IMHO, this should be the weakest link. I hate to see a fish swimming away with a piece of tippet on its mouth. At least with a "weak" knot, a fish will just take the fly (less harmful to fish). I'm not saying you should use the weakest knot you can tie though. Just a thought. I guess it is just a matter of preference. I happen to like Davy Knot. If others don't like it, that's fine. I'm not asking for approval or anything. In my kind of UL fishing (i.e., no big fish), I found Davy Knot to be sufficient. Also, when I fish in a freezing weather like this (see ice on the guide), it is probably the only knot I can reliably tie.
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Panfisher1
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:36 pm • # 78 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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You've obviously not done much research on the knot if you reference someone on here as the developer ...no one is offended ..sounds to me from the get go and negative response you have some personal vendetta with the structural integrity of the knot ....see, that's what so nice about the www, you've never seen the knot mentioned anywhere, means that a lot of new things are becoming available that people have never heard of or used, reading your post I don't see your ever using the knot when fly fishing, so how can you make any statement on its usefulness.. ..don't believe everything you read, base your opinion on practical application .. If it is any interest to you I have taken a good number of red side trout 18-22 inches in Oregon using Davy knot, along with other sizable fish, knot strength is very important playing fish that size....with that in mind I have had break offs because of the leader stress, not knot integrity ...try it you may change your mind .... All these people must be doing something right.... Paul
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Cowpokey
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:35 pm • # 79 |
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Joined: 06/23/12 Posts: 1141 Location: Songtan, Korea
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Knots must be tied correctly before their integrity can be questioned. The negative comments are unfounded, I've tested it and have only had poor results when it was my fault.
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Panfisher1
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:01 pm • # 80 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 2233 Location: Oregon/Florida
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Carter ...it always amazes me how people on the www come into a discussion from left field and With such negativity without even using the product or item and try to influence people with here say ... He wants us to try something different ...what does he think we started fly fishing yesterday ...if people want to try something different, they will and they have come to the conclusion that the knot works for them ...what does he think we are ignorant people on here ...you know ive learned whenever you see someone tell ya don't take it personally .. He is p*****g in the wind ... How's your back ?... Paul,
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