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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:21 am • # 1 
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As a recent "convert" to lighter fly rods, i have been loving the soft actions and light feel, not to mention the comfortability on smaller streams. A yearly tradition looms large however, as i prepare to hit a stream on opening day that sports a run of lake-run spawning rainbows. the minimum legal size is 15 inches but fish up to 24 (and larger) are common. Standard gear for most is a 9 footer, but I have now found those lengths and actions cumbersome. I am worried, however that i'd be undergunned w a 4wt, as ive never used anything that light for the lake run. is it feasible to land a 6 pound rainbow on a 3 or 4wt? or is this a situation where as much as I like the lighter rods, they'd be best sitting this one out? What are your experiences?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:57 am • # 2 
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6 lb'r 3wt play it :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:19 am • # 3 
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I will go on record here and state that I believe a rod's line weight rating has less to do with the size of fish, and much more to do with the flies being used and the conditions being fished in.

While it is true that some very large fish are regularly taken with very small flies. I think it is also true that in many (most) cases there is generally a corresponding increase in fly size with the increased size of the targeted quarry. As such, heavier fly rods are considered the appropriate tool for such large quarry. But again, I do not believe this is the case because lighter rods are not capable of fighting these fish.

To illustrate this, think for a moment of the world's fisherman that haul in very large fish (salt-water no less) with no rod at all. A rod certainly provides some advantages, but it is not necessary to bring a fish to hand. Some of these advantages are currently being "discussed" in the thread titled "Rod Length", so rather than repeat them here, I'll just refer you to that thread.

I don't have much experience with the 000 thru 1 weight rods, and I have somewhat limited experience with 2 weight rods. But I firmly believe that they are all very capable tools. Just recognize that I have used a 3 weight as my primary, and sometimes only line weight available to me. So that is what my personal experience/opinion is being derived from.

I've personally landed large trout and bass using 2 and 3 weight rods. And they took no more time to land than if I had been using a 5 or 6 weight rod. The proper application of pressure can easily be applied with any of them, as long as you understand the "realities" of using this equipment. So as long as you understand, and are comfortable with the fact that the lighter rod will bend more, and place you closer to fighting the fish "just off the reel", than a heavier rod will... Go for it!

If you aren't comfortable with this, desire the extra "control" a heavier rod MAY provide, or have a need to cast heavier flies or combat adverse conditions, then a heavier rod (and line weight) is probably called for.

---David


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:14 pm • # 4 
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Oh..I'd be "playin" one all right if i hooked one..I've seen bruisers in there the last few years givin guys with thick ugly stick spinning rods a run for their money :)

Thanks for taking the time to give me a tutorial on line weight vs fly wt, etc...being relatively new i definitely appreciate reading the responses in detail.

There definitely seems to be a lot more reward, both personally and in the eyes of fellow anglers when you land a large fish on light gear. Just hope i dont end up having to chase some big hooked hen rainbow halfway up the watershed! (actually what would be wrong with that?...couldnt think of anything more fun i'd rather do, now that i think about it...)

Any Fly choices i should tie or stock up on for spawning rainbows? glo egg obviously...anyone chase spawn or, more likely by Apirl first, post-spawn "fall- backs" ?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:22 pm • # 5 
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and Utah David...you, as well as others have vouched that that the balance or relationship between rod fly and line/leader, the three being in "harmony", as it were, equates to equal fish playing power. vis a vis.. the rod bending correctly to protect the tippet and so forth. To a recently converted spin fisherman..though a light as possible guy.. I have gotten my butt absolutely kicked more than a few times by fish in the rich and abundant upstate NY streams.. it sounds almost "karate" or martial arts- like, to play a fish of any respectable size with light gear.

i have learned to to "coax" a fish into into turning to a desired landing spot in wedge in rock or onto a bank on it's own power..... I have "played" trout indefinitely in 'punch bowl" pools for ten minutes. i have also had to hang on for dear life only to hear my drag scream off into the distance and break off like i wasnt even a factor. Such is the adventure of fishing, and the passion and rush..


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:29 pm • # 6 
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Is it possible to land a 6 lb. trout on a 3 wt. Yes. Is it desirable if you want to minimize the impact on your quarry? Maybe not. In my experience a heavier weight rod has translated directly into shorter time playing fish, which means less stress on the fish. Yes, understanding how to effectively play fish also helps. But I think you respect your quarry by using a big enough gun to take it down.

Especially when you get much in the way of current in a river, I think it makes sense to use heavier gear. I know many of my fellow listmates will argue that point to the death, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:29 am • # 7 
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Clarkfork wrote:
Is it possible to land a 6 lb. trout on a 3 wt. Yes. Is it desirable if you want to minimize the impact on your quarry? Maybe not. In my experience a heavier weight rod has translated directly into shorter time playing fish, which means less stress on the fish. Yes, understanding how to effectively play fish also helps. But I think you respect your quarry by using a big enough gun to take it down.

Especially when you get much in the way of current in a river, I think it makes sense to use heavier gear. I know many of my fellow listmates will argue that point to the death, though.

1x


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:35 am • # 8 
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Was lining a few rods up.. i think a good compromise is a flexible fiberglass rod..even rated 6wt its quivery and flexy, and bends a lot playing a fish..so i kinda get what i enjoy about UL but still feel "buttoned up" during a fight in current.

thanks for the comments/ thoughts.. helped a lot

note: The stream is low and clear..went spotting and there's lots of spawning action...many of these "bows" were huge...so... hope the run doesn't peter out by the Opener.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:58 pm • # 9 
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My thoughts:

It doesn't matter much if you're using a 4 wt rod or an 8 wt rod, if your tippet is the same strength between the two, unless said tippet/knots used exceeds the actual strength of the rod. Say I'm using 6lb tippet, or even 8lb (since your lake run rainbow are essentially steelhead, and 8lb is pretty common for tippet/leaders here in the PNW)

A 4 (or even 3) weight rod is stronger than 8lbs, at least from most manufacturers.

Rod action plays an important part, moreso than whatever line it's rated to cast. A rod with a strong butt section and flexible tip section would protect light line while giving you enough ooomph to turn a fish. A super slow rod that bends into the cork probably wouldn't be the best, regardless of how heavy a line it casts. The same goes - a very fast action rod that bends very little isn't going to load up the same as a medium rod that bends further. When properly loaded and fighting a fish, the tip of the rod will actually be fairly straight, and you'll notice the bend of the rod is in the middle and butt off the rod - where the power of the rod comes from.

So as long as your rod was designed with a strong butt - you should be able to apply plenty of pressure on the fish and land them as quickly as the guy using a pool cue for a rod, and if you're fishing lighter tippets/leaders the lighter rod may actaully benefit you - as using too stiff a rod will cause break offs on light line.

Not all rods are created equally, tapers differ from rod to rod even among manufacturers. The taper of a Sage One will be different than a Method and that will be different from a TXL etc etc. Some rods simply don't have much power in the butt section (referred to also as the rods "backbone") while still being said to cast a given line weight.

I wouldn't go salmon fishing with a 2 weight (a true 2 weight, anyway) as I have never seen one with much in the way of a powerful butt section. They're all pretty thin, and very flexible rods. Once you get upto about a 4 weight rod though, you'll find some rods that have quite a powerful butt, and flexible tip section and would be fine in landing larger fish, especially if you don't try to do the job on 5x tippet.

One way you could figure out how much pressure you can exert on a fish, would be to obtain a spring scale (typical fish scale) and attach one end to a fixed object (that is strong enough not to move during the test). Then line up your rod, with leader and tippet you plan on fishing. Attach tippet to the scale, then begin to put pressure on to the point you're comfortable with (don't break your rod!) - you'll be surprised at how much pressure most rods can exert. This will give you a good idea about what your rod will and won't do.

Also remember that when fighting a fish - changing angles of pressure, keeping the rod sideways as opposed to vertical, and sometimes (though it seems counterintuative) giving the fish slack line will get the fish in quickly, or keep them from running into water you don't want them in. You may loose a few fish, but that's what makes it exciting right? We can't land them all, or fishing would get boring. Also - if you think a fight is dragging out too long - point the rod at the fish and clamp down on the line. Better to break them off at a point in the fight the fish can still recover from, than play them out too long and cause them to die after release. If you're gonna keep the fish for the table, then enjoy the fight.

One of the most important points in selecting which rod is how big and heavy are the flies you intend to fish, with what size leader/lines, and will you be casting sinking or floating lines, and how far do you need to cast? If you're fishing smaller water, where you'll only need to cast 30' or so, with a lightly dressed #6 streamer, on a floating line - and you have a #4 rod that can withstand the pressure you'll need to exert on it - go for it. However, if you're fishing bigger water, with heavier currents, and bigger flies plus the need to get flies deeper, you may be better served with a #6 or 7, or even a #8. There are times when I'm out on small streams targeting smaller trout that I have to bust out my six weight, because my 3 weight can't handle the heavy streamers I want to fish - at least if I want to actually cast them as opposed to lobbing them like live bait.

Sounds like you have an awesome stream to fish - sight fishing for big fish is a real kick in the pants. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:29 am • # 10 
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Due to a discussion where ULFF with getting insulted as usual by the great masses of the uninformed on another forum I went and dug my rods out for a look and a check to see what each can do.

I attached each to a set of luggage scales with the tippet, line and reel and then proceeded to put into the rod the maximum curve that I was comfortable with and therefore pressure (i.e. line is singing with tension) that I could hold with one hand on rod and one on line as if I was trying to bully a fish away from a bolt hole and repeated each 3 times to get an average, results below: -

RDP 7ft6 1wt (slow medium, through actioned), 9oz pressure
Orvis Troutbum 7ft6 1 wt (med, through) 12oz
Flextec Streamtec 9ft 3wt (med, through) 12oz
Bloke XL50 8ft 3wt (med fast, middle tip) 15oz
Fulling Mill Gold 10ft 6wt (med fast, middle tip) 16 oz clean, 19oz with mini fighting butt engaged against wrist.
Airflo Bluetooth XT 9ft 10/11wt (fast, middle tip) 30oz with mini fighting butt
Scierra 13ft 10wt (med fast, spey rod) 64oz (with full fighting butt)

There does not appear to be a great difference in fighting power between an ultralight and a 'normal' rod, considering even my lightest rod still can put over half a pound of pressure on a trout, however there is a clear step up with both the saltwater and salmon rods.


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