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 Post subject: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:11 pm • # 1 
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Does anyone have any experience with the turkey baster type of throat/stomach pumps? Obviously using them on too stressed or too small a fish is a bad idea but any other tips would be appreciated. While I've often looked in a trout's mouth before releasing it to see if its regurgitated anything, I've never brought myself to getting a pump. I'm still on the fence about this, guessing what its eating is part of the mystery but some days I'm left scratching my head. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:10 pm • # 2 
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I've used them while trout fishing in Arkansas and found them very helpful in letting me know exactly what the fish are feeding on. Used properly they won't hurt the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:06 pm • # 3 
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I still wonder why one would even bother to do this. Unless they are conducting a study of some sort that is. Realistically, I don't see how one would gain that much of an advantage from a fishing standpoint. I catch a lot of trout every year and have never bothered pumping. If the bite is slow, I change my fly until I find what they are after. Naturally to cut down on the guessing, I observe what is in an on the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:29 pm • # 4 
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Sasha wrote:
I still wonder why one would even bother to do this. Unless they are conducting a study of some sort that is. Realistically, I don't see how one would gain that much of an advantage from a fishing standpoint. I catch a lot of trout every year and have never bothered pumping. If the bite is slow, I change my fly until I find what they are after. Naturally to cut down on the guessing, I observe what is in an on the water.


I would think it could be a huge advantage. I fish primarily brooktrout, not known to be exceedingly hard to catch, but nevertheless, I've had days when they were very selective, especially early season. I don't believe turning over rocks at the edge of the stream tells the whole story. A guy would find any number of bugs, but that's doesn't mean that's what's swimming around an inch or two below the surface at the tail end of the pool and have the trout all excited.
I don't think this is going to make or break my season and I'm still torn on the whole idea of it. As I mentioned originally, guessing what's going on is part of the fun. I was just wondering what other people's experiences with them have been.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:20 am • # 5 
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Sometimes, the fish deserves to win.

But still if you must, at least offer to buy the trout a drink first and maybe dinner before you go into full cavity search mode :)


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:03 am • # 6 
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I'm personally against the use of such pumps.

When practicing Catch and Release, if just bringing a fish to hand has an associated mortality rate, and any additional handling of the fish (picture taking, etc.) increases that rate, you'll never convince me that pumping their stomach doesn't "do damage".

Furthermore, to pump a fish, I'd have to have caught a fish. If I have done so then why am I pumping a stomach to find what they are eating? They've already taken a fly that I offered.

I agree with Swamptrout and Sasha. Sometimes the fish deserves to win, and a stomach pump is for researchers that need to examine the contents of a fish's stomach and hope to keep it alive in the process. They are not for fishermen.

You are, of course, free to do as you please, and disagree entirely with my opinion on the matter.

---David


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:11 pm • # 7 
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The post was never about asking if one thought the use of a pump was correct or not but then this is the internet. The discussion is good and has me thinking more about the idea.

Sometimes, the fish deserves to win.

This is true. I suppose this particular point is part of my apprehension about using a pump. I wasn't so concerned about the harm it may cause, used correctly I'm sure the fish would be fine but there is the sporting side of it. How I catch a fish matters. I hunt birds over pointing dogs and could bushwhack grouse off limbs, the dog wouldn't care(I imagine he wonders why I don't) but shooting one out of the air is certainly more satisfying. A pump could be abused in the same way and used to excess would no doubt take some of the shine off a catch.

My intention would have never been to clean out every fish I caught. As I've said the mystery of what they're into is part of the charm but a little knowledge would go a long way. I suppose a guy has to be content in the methods he uses to gain it. I can always ask one of my killing buddies what was in the stomach when he cleans it.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:18 pm • # 8 
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So I've never done it, but I did a bunch of research recently on how to do it as I am interested in doing it.

The how-tos I read said:

1) Practice the procedure enough to do it quickly before actually doing it to a fish.
2) Only do it to fish that did not spend a long time fighting and thus is not very weakened.
3) There is no point to doing it to more than 1 or 2 fish per day in the water you are fishing.
4) First flush out the pump several times to get it wet and clean.
5)Squeeze the rubber bulb under water to fill it, then squeeze out at least half the water in the bulb and keep the bulb partially compressed.
6) With the trout held on its side over the net gently insert the plastic tube until resistance is felt.
7) At this point squeeze a small amount of water out of the bulb into the trout’s stomach.
8 ) Now slowly release your pressure on the rubber bulb and it will inflate and draw stomach content into the clear plastic tube which you will often see. The reason for releasing the pressure very slowly is so as not to draw any stomach lining into the plastic tube which could damage the wall of the stomach.
9) Withdraw the tube and immediately ensure the fish is okay and then release it.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:08 pm • # 9 
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schuey:
To add to acorad's list, there is also a minimum size of fish that is recommended for pumping, but that may depend upon the individual pump.
I have no personal experience with pumps, just what I know from biologists I've worked with. And to be honest, in most cases they just opened up the fish with a knife and had a look around.
If you DO get a pump and use it, I'd love to hear about your experiences, and what you learned.
Brent


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:42 am • # 10 
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Sometime earlier in my youth I though about it a lot... and finally didn't get one. I do intend to get one once I get some entomology studies and begin my FF guide career to better serve my clients. Keep in mind I will do so to get an idea of the ff season bug hatching and habits, so is just one season study if I do stay guiding the same county.

I didn't get one because I think (never tried it yet) its gonna keep the whole ff experience less magical to me, in my mind I like to think that if I have a fish on is because I could "read" the takes on the surface, the flashes on the bottom, the bugs that's surrounds me, etc. and resolve the "mystery" to present the right fly, at the right moment with the right drag or drag-less, at the proper depth... you get the idea...

Is up to you to get it or not, there is no right or wrong, but please research the topic to use it right and keep fish alive after the procedure. If you don't use it right then there is a wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:08 am • # 11 
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I like using them because I enjoy sticking it down the fish's throat and making them throw up.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:00 pm • # 12 
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:lol :lol :lol I'll bet you do!


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:30 am • # 13 
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:) :) :)


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 8:28 pm • # 14 
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If you just squeeze real hard like milking a cow, you can squeeze it out the mouth or the other end, and voila mystery solved. On a more serious note, I like to eat my place and take fish in a nearby creek, and have found snails and crawdads whole which I don't think would suck through a turkey baster. my .02


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:54 am • # 15 
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I think all those that would stomach pump a trout, should practice on themselves to get the procedure down, before subjecting a trout to unskilled hands.
Anything less than two dozen practice trials should be considered inadequate.
I question the reasoning of those that say "this procedure does no harm".


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:01 pm • # 16 
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I sometimes pump a trout if they took my fly and it was the wrong fly, a new unfished water and/or the hatches didn´t make sense. It can help sometimes but mostly the debris from the trouts stomach is a mess and if I can identify anything it sure doesn´t show any color or nuances. If I have the time I try to collect some insects the oldfashioned way, turning stones shaking bushes etc.
It demands some "fingertip feel" to perform a stomach pumping and the smaller the trout the greater risc of injuries. But on occasions it will save some time for what its worth, I mean when your out fishing its not all about quantity right?


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:32 pm • # 17 
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I still like making the trout throw up.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:49 pm • # 18 
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I wonder when they will be banned. Not sure I even agree with them in legal educational and research studies. They don't do this to feathered, furred and hairy game, why do it to our piscatorial game too? Even a lot of photography is hard on fish...all of course if you intend on killing your catch, and then, land the fish and kill it. Using pumps is a stupid/cruel practice. I hate it. Keep the suspense, skill and or luck in fishing.

I still prefer to have the fish jump off the barbless hook at my feet. If one does manage the skill/luck to land a fish, get it back to it's proper environment as quick as possible. If you take a photo, do it quick and handle the fish with wet hands or better yet, wet sungloves, never laying the fish on dry rocks or grass, etc, snap a photo and release properly....but for god's sakes, don't suck the contents out of it's stomach first.


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:46 am • # 19 
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The only place I have used a pump is on big tail waters with lots of trout food like the Grey Reef section of the North Platte. While it is a quick and easy way to peg the right fly down, I do it more from a curiosity stand point. My early college background was in fisheries biology and I still have a strong desire to gather that kind of info. I know a lot of people think the practice is cruel and I can see their point...it doesn't seem pleasant, but compared to the amount of handling we did in my fisheries classes while electroshocking (paralyzing), weighing, measuring and tagging or fin clipping trout for release and later recapture for growth and migration studies, pumping the stomach is a pretty quick ordeal. I'm not trying to justify it or saying it has zero chance of causing physical damage, but just putting it into perspective.

You might be amazed at what you find if you pump a trout's stomach. Last trip to the grey reef, we were catching most of our fish on #20 rs2s, but 90% of what was in the trout's stomach were tiny copepods that wouldn't rate on a hook sizing scale.

As a rule, I will only pump trout from streams with rich food sources such as a tailwater, not in headwaters or infertile streams where food can be scarce and every meal is hard earned and far between. I think in this situation is where stomach pumps have the potential to do real damage.

Great discussion on this topic, I love the civility over a topic that can be so hotly debated. I'm going to like it here :)


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 Post subject: Re: Throat/Stomach Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:59 pm • # 20 
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I've found that if you can sufficiently hurt the fishes self esteem by using words like; "toad", "chunky", "pig" and so on that they will often begin to purge themselves.


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