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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:43 pm • # 21 
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The .358 Winchester is a wonderful cartridge......Very flexible, easy to load for and not hard on brass (with reasonable loads).
All it is, is the .308 Winchester necked-up to 35 caliber. For plinking, you can load the 125 & 158 grain pistol bullets with a reduced load, they are cheap and fun to shoot. Cast bullets with mild loads shoot very well too. I had a .358 about 30 years ago (a pre-64 Winchester) have kicked myself for selling it ever since. I would love to find a model 7 Remington or a Ruger compact in this caliber but have never seen one. I have seen several BLR's over the years in the .358, but I think I would rather find a good bolt gun. We don't have much in the way or dangerous game here, so a good bolt gun would work just fine......should be a little more accurate to boot. ..( I'll bet you can tell I am a fan of this cartridge)..........................Don in SC


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:21 pm • # 22 
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Tailingloop wrote:
The .358 Winchester is a wonderful cartridge......Very flexible, easy to load for and not hard on brass (with reasonable loads).
All it is, is the .308 Winchester necked-up to 35 caliber. For plinking, you can load the 125 & 158 grain pistol bullets with a reduced load, they are cheap and fun to shoot. Cast bullets with mild loads shoot very well too. I had a .358 about 30 years ago (a pre-64 Winchester) have kicked myself for selling it ever since. I would love to find a model 7 Remington or a Ruger compact in this caliber but have never seen one. I have seen several BLR's over the years in the .358, but I think I would rather find a good bolt gun. We don't have much in the way or dangerous game here, so a good bolt gun would work just fine......should be a little more accurate to boot. ..( I'll bet you can tell I am a fan of this cartridge)..........................Don in SC


Yup, I can tell. My friend shot a lot of reduced loads utilizing 38 caliber handgun bullets. He also worked up a good light soft lead pistol bullet load over a few grains of Dupont 700X for popping grouse. Incidentally, he put me on a good grouse load for my 308 and 30-30 (and the 300 Sav. when I owned one) consisting of a .315 Dia round ball.
I take a decapping tool which pushes the primer out without resizing the case. I press a LR magnum Primer back in, drop 2 grs of 700X and press the round ball in the case as far as it will go. (unsized cases are needed) The noise is about like that of a .22 standard vel loading. The point of impact was exactly 2" low at 25 yards. Once I used the load to shoot a feral cat that was beating up on our cats. At about 20 yards, the round ball gave complete penetration. No filler is required, even if you point the muzzle straight down and the powder falls against the ball. The Magnum primer gives plenty of spark.

HE said the soft lead pistol bullet in the 358 provides even greater 'whop' on small game....but cast bullets don't work, you have to have dead soft lead.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:47 pm • # 23 
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To me, even though I've never owned or shot a .358, it seems to be, on paper anyway, a very good "woods" cartridge for medium to large game.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:13 pm • # 24 
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Sasha ... .223 ammunition is almost impossible to come by down here
In Florida ..my friend has a M15a2 made by armalite and we tried six different
Ranges and retail stores ...none available and no idea when they will be ...
People just buying it up and hoarding it .... Empty shevles not a good thing ..

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:45 pm • # 25 
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Panfisher1 wrote:
Sasha ... .223 ammunition is almost impossible to come by down here
In Florida ..my friend has a M15a2 made by armalite and we tried six different
Ranges and retail stores ...none available and no idea when they will be ...
People just buying it up and hoarding it .... Empty shevles not a good thing ..

Paul


And thanks to good old "inflation due to demand" American economics, now, every time he pulls the trigger on that Armalite, it costs him close to a buck. Empty a 30 rounds magazine and holy crap! An hour of rapid fire AR15 fun will now cost you the same as a good fly rod.....of real good fly rod.

This is why I love .22s anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm • # 26 
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Can't find .22 ammo anywhere either. I'm holding off on any shooting other than air guns until supply comes back in line. I did put 40 rds through my latest purchase, but that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:11 pm • # 27 
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We went into Gander mountain which a big retailer in firearms and ammunition ..the shelves in the ammo department looked liked a going out of business sale, bare, emply.. All calibers .... And they had signs on any available ammunition "0nly three boxes per customer " what in the wide world of sports is going on? I've never seen panic buying like this ...

Paul :'( :'( :'(


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:16 pm • # 28 
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And the next chain of events ..reloaders won't be able to get powder, bullets, cases, primers .....trickle down effect they call it ......

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:59 pm • # 29 
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jkurtz7 wrote:
Can't find .22 ammo anywhere either. I'm holding off on any shooting other than air guns until supply comes back in line. I did put 40 rds through my latest purchase, but that's it.


Yes, even 22 shells are gone. But they will be back. I just hope they don't go up too much in price. I am glad I bought 20,000 rounds of American Eagle 22 shells a few years ago. Even so, I am wishing the semi auto 22s I own were bolt actions. I have a Winchester m9422 that was given me over 30 years ago. It isn't bad but you can still walk through a fair bit of ammo. That is one smooth action.

Back 5 or 6 years ago, I bought a conversion kit for my Ruger 10-22 to make it a 17 Mach II. The kit worked fine and was pretty accurate but after a few trips to the range, I decided it was a terrible idea after all and sold the kit and put the old parts of the 10-22 back together. Even a semi auto 22 can get expensive to shoot. A 17 Mach II version is just too much. I bought me a Marlin Bolt action 17 Mach II....more my speed.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:45 pm • # 30 
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A friend at work could not find any 9mm this last weekend. About all I see is 17 HMR ammo. I might consider a rifle in that caliber, but I think things will loosen up soon on 22lr. A lot of 22 is made overseas and no reason to hoard it, as compared to 223.

Never seen it like this though.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:28 pm • # 31 
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Went to a indoor shooting range here in Florida that we frequent ... To see what
Ammo is available .. We couldn't believe a busy facility like this had a sign on the door that read."bring your own ammo, we have none" ..the owner told me he had a total of ten people all of last week ... The friggin government going to put this poor guy out of business ...said his suppliers have no clue as to when and if they will have ammunition available .... What a country !! Speculators and liberals amazing place we live in ... :'( :'( :'(

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:14 pm • # 32 
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I have a small supply of .22LR that I accumulated over the last year. I won't shoot it up though, not now.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:12 pm • # 33 
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We finally found a place that had the .223 ammunition, a range called "shooting straight" there are about 5-8 of them throughout the state of Florida, almost like a franchise thing ...any way they had the ammo available to their membership only at $22.50 a box .... I remember last year my buddy purchased a box of 20 rounds for $3.99 ...how times have changed ... Since everyone now wants to shoot .22 ammunition they are at a premium and conversion kits non existing .... Don't be plinking away those 22 LR Jeremy they may also be very hard to come by ...

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:24 pm • # 34 
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Paul, all my ammo is now reserved for SHTF only, until supplies come back.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:34 pm • # 35 
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Went into town today to pick up some Daiichi Hooks and some Canadian Brown Dubbing. The sporting goods store was starting to pick up some .22 ammo so things are returning. Sportsmans warehouse got in a half a dozen AR platform 223's. They said that things are settling down. The cost is higher though.

It is my guess that when this whole thing is over, prices will drop back a ways. We go through this every time......somebody talks about some regulations on guns, the shooting world goes nucking futs, the ammo, reloading and semi-auto rifles disappear from the shelves for half a year even with inflation, it all blows over or a few regulations gets put in place, then life returns to normal.....it has always been this way. It happened in 1992, 1996, 2008 and now 2012/13. Life will go on my friends. When gun/ammo sales drop off, the price will drop. I've been reloading and shooting for nearly 40 years. The sky is not falling.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:20 am • # 36 
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Dave ...I surely hope your right... But In my lifetime and with all the political
Events that influence firearms that have taken place, never have the I seen such panic buying ... Ysda evening we were in a local Walmart, you never see shelves without inventory, their warehouses are usually full of what ever they need to keep the shelves full ..not in this case, empty shelves , empty gun racks, no pistol ammo...I hope your right ..but looks like things will get worse b4 they get better ..

Paul :'( :'( :'(


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:30 pm • # 37 
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Panfisher1 wrote:
Dave ...I surely hope your right... But In my lifetime and with all the political
Events that influence firearms that have taken place, never have the I seen such panic buying ... Ysda evening we were in a local Walmart, you never see shelves without inventory, their warehouses are usually full of what ever they need to keep the shelves full ..not in this case, empty shelves , empty gun racks, no pistol ammo...I hope your right ..but looks like things will get worse b4 they get better ..

Paul :'( :'( :'(


Going on previous experiences, I'd say that even if there are some new regulation put in place, things will settle down. I did talk to one gun shop owner who said he was actually concerned that given the massive amount of sales in just a few months, but only on selected items such as High Cap Semi Auto stuff and accompanying ammo BUT absolute lack of sales on normal hunting rifles and shotguns and their ammo, when the craziness stops, and people having blown their budgets on Assault Rifles, their businesses might really suffer afterwards. It will be due to fear tactics and rumors. They will have done more than a years sales...on specific items and be stuck with an inventory of guns nobody can now afford or even want.

Back in 1992 which BC was elected. I was living in Nebraska. You could not even find a primer or can of gun powder anywhere in that state. There was not even one box of .22 shells to be found......but there was stock piles of shotshells and normal hunting rounds everywhere.....just like now.

Things will go nuts for awhile then settle down. The world is not ending, the sky is not falling and a year from now, it is my bet, the gun stores are full of guns and ammo....I just hope not at too inflated a price.

It happened in 96/97 when BC was reelected and I remember in 08/09, folks went absolutely out of their minds in fear stirred by rumors....yet nothing happened. In January of 09 just before Obama was inaugurated the first time, I remember a Mormon co worker who positively certain a civil war over gun ownership was looming, Jesus was returning within the year and Armageddon was right around the corner, maxed out a 40,000 dollar credit card on AR rifles and pallets of ammo. I told him he was acting very stupid but he was convinced the world was ending.....He later due to his now personal financial 'Armageddon', had to sell off a bunch of it, at a loss. I have always said as the saying goes: "sometimes it is better to stand for nothing, or else you might fall for something".

It is my guess that the regulations that will take place will be universal background checks for all gun sales except for immediate family and a 10 round magazine limit....with a grand father clause on existing inventory......then life will go on. There are nearly half a billion firearms in the US including more than 3 million Assault Type Rifles (using their words) and they are staying right where they are. Perhaps the age of HCM's might draw to an end and for those kinds of shooters, it will be too bad....but they will still have the HCM's they have now.

The real question I have, is now that .223/5.56 ammo now costs as much as a box of .270 Winchester ammo, who can afford to feed a Semi Auto with a 30 rounds mag? I could not afford to frequently buy a box of 270 shells and head to the range to shoot in an afternoon secession, let alone blast through magazines of such expensive ammo in rapid rate of fire from an AW.

Sorry this is long but this is what my gut instincts from previous experiences are telling me.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:04 pm • # 38 
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BTW, Sorry if I crossed the line into some politics. Please don't take this to mean anything political.....it is just my opinion on the current fear and rumors causing this craziness.

I for one would rather spend my money on fly fishing stuff. Can you imagine the fly rod collection you could put together for the cost of one high end AR platform rifle and the ammo to feed it? You could have quite the set up of Orvis Fly rods, some nice reels.....hhmmmmm....it is a no brainer for me.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:46 pm • # 39 
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Dave,

It's pretty hard not mention politics in this discussion, but hey, you apologized, and we should keep this thread moving.

________________________

Today I went to the local Dunhams sporting goods store. They had 3 boxes of Remington UMC 9mm FMJ on the very small self of pistol ammo, so I bought all 3 @ $13.99 a box. Dunhams now has no 9mm ammo in stock.

I also bought 40 rounds of 7.62x54R for my Mosin Nagant. This is surplus, @ $7.99 for a 20rd box. They had a few boxes of Wolf and Winchester brass cased 7.62x54R for $25.99, and $29.99 respectively. I had to pass on those.

They did have a decent supply of 30/30, and plenty of shotgun ammo. Just a few boxes of .17HMR, a few boxes of Remington Golden Bullet .22LR (50 rd boxes) crap ammo, and a fair supply of .380 acp was on hand too.

Now I just need to find a few boxes of premium 9mm JHP to bolster my defensive ammo supply.


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 Post subject: Re: I am wondering.....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:29 pm • # 40 
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You know one gun I used to own that I really miss is an old Remington m760 pump in 300 Savage. It wore a El Paso Made Weaver 3X scope with a dot. It looked like it spent it's life riding around in a tractor or possible in the bed of a ranchers pick up under a bunch of fencing stuff but it was still sound as can be and very accurate. I always wanted a good 300 Savage but never could afford a Savage Lever Action....so when I found this little pump rifle in a used gun rack and it seemed as though nobody loved it anymore, I was able to buy it for 140.00 dollars. I carried it for 6 or 7 years then had to sell it along with a bunch of guns to help pay for my daughter's surgery.

I loaded for it....150gr Hornaday's at around 2500fps. It was plenty flat shooting, very accurate and very light recoil and noise. I killed a pile of rock chucks and coyotes with it. I remember a friend came up to Idaho to shoot rock chucks one spring. HE set up his bull barreled 22-250 with a 18X scope. I told him he was a sissy and dragged the old pump 300 Savage out and started blasting rock chucks off rocks right before his eyes.

I should have never sold it. I am hoping to find another one.


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