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 Post subject: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:53 am • # 1 
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Any recommendations for an XUL spinning rod? As usual, I don't want to jump straight in to JDM until I've played around with more affordable options.

Looking for a rod that will properly cast 1/72 oz Trout Magnets and similar. Most of the time it will probably be 1/32 oz and definitely nothing over 1/16. Like many, I've been getting by with UL rods for this but they're certainly not ideal. In the summer I like to wet wade rivers and streams and the fish tend to be small.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:54 am • # 2 
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shimano soare ...but its jdm . I can cast trout magnets with it fairly accurately....not sure if its an xul though. I have a 6' xul rod from chris stewart that is a hoot to catch bluegill and white bass but it doesnt load as well with a trout magnet as the soare.... in either case less than $200 and a pure joy to fish. I had a fenwick eagle that was most definitely xul for around $70....gave it to my kids to play with. Side note...can effectively cast the trout mini magnet (1/200 oz i think) pretty well with the shimano soare.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:50 am • # 3 
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Joe, I can't find a Fenwick Eagle that's listed any less than UL, 1/32-1/4 oz. Do you know the model? They're priced right.

The Shimano Soare definitely has my attention. Are these the BB Ajing or Mebaru (rockfish)? Which model do you have? I see Finesse-Fishing has some but they're a bit longer than I was thinking of for a stream rod but being able to cast a Mini Magnet is just crazy. Opens up a whole new world of fishing beaded flies sometimes.

Also looking at the Major Craft TraPara TPS-562SUL, .5 - 2g lure rating. Also comes in 6' and 6' 3" with same rating. Don't know much about it though.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:32 am • # 4 
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joe the plumber wrote:
shimano soare ...but its jdm . I can cast trout magnets with it fairly accurately....not sure if its an xul though. I have a 6' xul rod from chris stewart that is a hoot to catch bluegill and white bass but it doesnt load as well with a trout magnet as the soare.... in either case less than $200 and a pure joy to fish. I had a fenwick eagle that was most definitely xul for around $70....gave it to my kids to play with. Side note...can effectively cast the trout mini magnet (1/200 oz i think) pretty well with the shimano soare.



mebaru i think 7' rod ....caught tons of trout with it not to mention large bass and crappie...as far as the fenwick it was an older model from Dicks sporting goods...but the soare will definitely cast the trout mini magnets and is money well spent but I was also using 3#test troutist line....all available from Chris on the finesse site. The xul daiwa is nice for the "fight" but for casting its hard to beat the soare. Chris could probably help you out with better technical info. He has rods that are rated to cast even lighter lures but they are pricey. I'm not trying to bash any other brands or makers but JDM is really good stuff....even the entry level is super quality.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:01 pm • # 5 
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Knotty wrote:
Any recommendations for an XUL spinning rod? As usual, I don't want to jump straight in to JDM until I've played around with more affordable options.

Looking for a rod that will properly cast 1/72 oz Trout Magnets and similar. Most of the time it will probably be 1/32 oz and definitely nothing over 1/16. Like many, I've been getting by with UL rods for this but they're certainly not ideal. In the summer I like to wet wade rivers and streams and the fish tend to be small.



Still in the market for this. I've made a spin/fly rod with a 2wt fly blank, and while it can throw 1/32-1/64 trout magnets, I can only really get 15-20ft without sacrificing accuracy. 25 is doable, but it would compromise my accuracy as I would be whipping the lure out there.
As for my line and reel, I've used what works best for my area, which has a lot of snags.
For my line, I use a 3lb test fireline with a 10ft of 4lb mono leader, and a Daiwa 500c.
At some point, I've just recognized that expecting a rod to cast a trout magnet 40-50ft is a little too much to ask for. In these scenarios, I either use a dropshot/splitshot/bobber rig, or just convert the rod into a fly rod and skagit cast the trout magnets. With lures this light, sometimes it's just best to use a fly rod if you don't want to deal with bobbers or splitshot.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:27 pm • # 6 
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Thanks guys. Will take all this into consideration.

Too often I’m looking for a magic bullet. I posted this query in relation to stream fishing but in the back of my mind I also want the rod to be good for lakes. Need to be realistic and admit those are different rods. So for now I’ll focus on shorter rod for the streams.

Already in touch with Chris Stewart.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:17 pm • # 7 
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Knotty wrote:
Thanks guys. Will take all this into consideration.

Too often I’m looking for a magic bullet. I posted this query in relation to stream fishing but in the back of my mind I also want the rod to be good for lakes. Need to be realistic and admit those are different rods. So for now I’ll focus on shorter rod for the streams.

Already in touch with Chris Stewart.



Well said-- those are the sentiments I've come to since embarking on the UL spinning journey.
While I was hoping that my 2wt blank was a little more limber and could throw my trout magnets further, I really do think the 2wt is a happy medium between throwing trout magnets effectively while still being capable of fishing in lakes.

However, I've yet to try Mebaru, Aijing, and Area rods, which have a much faster tip than a fly blank, so it is entirely possible that you could have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately, with the lack of warranty, I just can't justify paying that much for such a delicate tool at this point in my hobby. Let us know what you end up picking up!


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:50 pm • # 8 
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I'm probably placing too much emphasis on Trout Magnets when in reality I'm mostly looking to cast 1/16 and 1/32 oz well (Berkley Atomic Tubes do it all). Even with the TM's, often there's the additional weight of a float.

It's the "area" rods that can cast super light but they're not designed for dealing with fish in rivers and streams with current and snags. I probably just need to admit that a "native stream" rod is more likely the solution.

coelaecanth, I read your report on the 2 wt. build. Looks great but I imagine even that must have run a couple of bills.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:45 pm • # 9 
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Knotty wrote:
I'm probably placing too much emphasis on Trout Magnets when in reality I'm mostly looking to cast 1/16 and 1/32 oz well (Berkley Atomic Tubes do it all). Even with the TM's, often there's the additional weight of a float.

It's the "area" rods that can cast super light but they're not designed for dealing with fish in rivers and streams with current and snags. I probably just need to admit that a "native stream" rod is more likely the solution.

coelaecanth, I read your report on the 2 wt. build. Looks great but I imagine even that must have run a couple of bills.



The rod build's cost wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, clocking in at around ~$140 dollars including a spare tip. If I were to do it again, I'd probably get rid of the microwave guides and opt for low profile ceramic guides-- my reel is tiny, and the microwave guides are a touch too small for my shooting head to running line connection, but I got around that by integrating a floating running line with the shooting head. If I were to replace the microwave guides with regular guides, the build would end up being around ~$110-$120 including a spare tip.

Here is the parts list:
RDP 6'6" fly rod blank- 55
Extra Tip- 15
Tennessee Grip- 24
Microwave Guides- 32
Glue and Thread- 15

I'd say biggest benefit to building your own rod is having the ability to spec it out to your desires- at the end of the day, I was trying to create a spin/fly rod that was a four piece for travel, meaning that one of the implications would be that I would be fishing a multitude of conditions. Seeing as I prefer fishing large/small ponds, small/midsized rivers, and jetties, I tried to pick a blank that could fish all of these conditions all while still being within the realm of ultralight.
While I had originally intended to throw 2g-4g, the lure weight range was greater than I thought [1g~6g]. Because of this, I can fish in close quarters, but have the potential to really lob it out there [90-100ft], if needed be.

I don't particularly enjoy building rods that much, but I do enjoy planning the components out so that I can meet my design goals. If a hyperniche product is what you're looking for, I'd recommend it. But if you're looking for a small stream spinning rod, I'm sure you can find one that suits your needs within the market.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:13 pm • # 10 
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Knotty wrote:
It's the "area" rods that can cast super light but they're not designed for dealing with fish in rivers and streams with current and snags. I probably just need to admit that a "native stream" rod is more likely the solution.


In an effort to determine what type of rod would work best for me, I started buying various SUL spinning and BFS rods on AliExpress. Mostly Kuying but also one Tsurinoya. FWIW, I haven't had a Kuying yet that I didn't like. Too early to tell with Tsurinoya. But along the way a JDM Daiwa Presso AGS 54XUL-S area rod came up in the classifieds on another forum and I bought it. Seller originally acquired it from Chris Stewart. The rod is amazing:2.4 oz, solid tip, carbon guides, skeletal reel seat.

Image

With trout season finally open, I was able to wade fish a river with it twice this week. A Stradic Ci4+ 1000 reel perfectly balances the rod. For line I used hiviz Seaguar Yellow Hunter 4# flouro (eBay from Japan) with a 6X tippet flouro leader. Rated at .6-2.5 g for lures and 1.5-3 # for lines, it casts light spoons with ease and has no problems with my beloved Trout Magnets, which, by the way, turn out to be about 1 g or 1/32 oz with the plastic.

The question was how would this area rod handle native stream fishing? The stretch I fished was mostly slow moving but three trout, including the largest, were pulled from faster moving areas full of snags.

I entered the water expecting most of the trout to have been taken on opening weekend but much to my surprise I could see them rising to feast on the caddis hatch. Not a lot of them but at least they were there. Of course, there I am with spinning gear when dry flies are the name of the game. I keep a few heavier flies in my spin box, so I tied on a bead headed soft plastic grub with a minimal hackle and started drifting it past the nearest rising trout that was holding to the shallow bottom. No takes or movement until I got right in front of him. Saw it disappear and then set the hook. This was mid stream and the trout was small, so no problems landing it with the rod. The next trout would come from casting downstream into the turbulence caused by a large tree across the river with other downed trees creating a channel. Again the rod had no issues but again a small trout.

Switching to a small craft fur jig, I worked upstream. The water was crystal clear with no grasses growing yet. The only place I caught sight of other fish was along the banks amid the snags. Despite the challenges, good sized perch and bluegill and a moderate pickerel were pulled out and landed w/o a break off. The last fish of the day was the biggest trout, picked up near a bank, close to snags. The Presso AGS 54XUL-S had proven itself.

Image

Image

Two days later I returned. Three trout again, including the largest yet, but only one yellow perch from the river. Leaving the river and hiking over to some small ponds, I caught many small gills, perch and crappie. Being able to effortlessly flick a Trout Magnet underhand from locations surrounded by brush was a real joy.

Image

Some thoughts on the rod. Because of it's low lure rating, it can cast things like trout magnets with ease and accuracy. It doesn't cast them far but plenty far enough for stream fishing. The sensitivity is amazing but not in the way I expected. It's hard to explain. It's not that I feel things that much more but I feel them "faster". The way the rod communicates with my hand is more immediate and in a way that makes me react faster. Sometimes you're almost startled or shocked by the feel.

I suspect that the Kuyings will also fish well but won't have the something extra the Daiwa has. I'm starting to see why many who go down the JDM road never look back.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:07 pm • # 11 
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Nice read, thanks for reports!


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:58 am • # 12 
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Over the years I have tried countless UL and XUL rods. The best I have found for casting tiny lures is a Shimano Soare C14+ S408UL-S Ajing rod
4'-8" Lures 0.4 - 8 g , line 1-3 lb.
Surprisingly, the rod is quite stiff with a solid extremely fine flexible tip that throws tiny lures better and more accurately than any of the softer rods I own.I purchased it from Chris but I don't currently see any on his site.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:50 am • # 13 
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That one surprised me, too and I agree with you completely.

It didn't sell quite as well as I had hoped so I didn't re-order. I'll get in a few more and give it a second chance.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 7:48 am • # 14 
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6footrod wrote:
Over the years I have tried countless UL and XUL rods. The best I have found for casting tiny lures is a Shimano Soare C14+ S408UL-S Ajing rod
4'-8" Lures 0.4 - 8 g , line 1-3 lb.
Surprisingly, the rod is quite stiff with a solid extremely fine flexible tip that throws tiny lures better and more accurately than any of the softer rods I own.I purchased it from Chris but I don't currently see any on his site.


The ajing rods seem to have a much wider lure range than XUL and SUL rods. I’ve got a 7’6” that’s rated .6-10 g. Great kayak rod as it allows such a variety of lures and long length which helps with seated casting. I’d definitely be interested in a shorter one, like the Soare, for stream fishing. On the downside, I can’t imagine they could offer anywhere near the light line protection of the Presso AGS.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:11 pm • # 15 
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I have the Presso AGS also and the Soare protects light lines just as well. I use 3lb. on the Presso for larger streams like the Delaware and 2lb on the Soare for smaller stuff. The Soare is my favorite spin rod.


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 Post subject: Re: XUL Rod
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:26 pm • # 16 
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6footrod wrote:
I have the Presso AGS also and the Soare protects light lines just as well. I use 3lb. on the Presso for larger streams like the Delaware and 2lb on the Soare for smaller stuff. The Soare is my favorite spin rod.


That’s quite a testimony to the Soare.


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