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 Post subject: This isn't right
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:49 pm • # 1 
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I went back to the St. Vrain just above the town of Lyons to see if any fish wanted to come out and play. I did bring some up, and was able to hook two, but they got off. It happens. But on the way back to the truck I ran into something that just bewildered me. Here it is, early Nov., and this guy was right on the path basking himself.

Image

I was walking along looking at the creek, and in the corner of my eye I saw something a few feet of me move. I turned my head to see what it was and I was maybe three feet away from heading to the hospital. I never stopped so fast in my life. But I was grateful that it allowed me to take a photo and not strike at me.

This year I have run into bears, moose, ticked off squirrels, rams, and now a rattler. Been a good year in a wild way.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:26 am • # 2 
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Nothing unusual about it for me . I have came across them at Lak Roosevelt boat ramp very early 3-5 am on Christmas morning . Very lethargic but alive still the same . Seen them at 10,000 feet when they are supposed to be desert dwellers and also seen them while hiking a trail in Nev to see the Brisiel Cone pine trees in the snow ! NEVER count them out . Had one in the house with me and me in just my boxers , I shot his azz . Many more snake stories . Never trust them , they are sneaky .


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:07 pm • # 3 
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jangles wrote:
Nothing unusual about it for me . I have came across them at Lak Roosevelt boat ramp very early 3-5 am on Christmas morning . Very lethargic but alive still the same . Seen them at 10,000 feet when they are supposed to be desert dwellers and also seen them while hiking a trail in Nev to see the Brisiel Cone pine trees in the snow ! NEVER count them out . Had one in the house with me and me in just my boxers , I shot his azz . Many more snake stories . Never trust them , they are sneaky .



In all my 54 years, I have never just come across a rattler. Oh, I know they are all over the place here in the foothills along the Front Range, and basically everywhere else, and I have seen many on summer nights on dirt roads staying warm as I'm driving along squishing them, but never have I just stumbled up on one. I run into many other snakes all summer along the banks of the rivers, and I'm used to that, but a rattler, in Nov.? Just thought it would never happen.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm • # 4 
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I know , once you start seeing them it's as though (in my case) I turned into a snake magnet .
I bought the house I am in right now while in foreclosure as the people that lived here had medical bills they couldn't pay due to the lady getting bitten on the front deck by a rattler . I have taken 2 or 3 off the front deck and 1 off the back deck and a few out of the front yard . The one in the house was actually in the laundry room off the back deck . I went out to get a popsicle out of the freezer and heard a buzzing sound and looked down and there he was barely a foot from my bare leg coiled up . I stood still and he slithered behind a "tote" and I back out and shut the door . Came back with 22 and he went wherever snakes go .


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:50 pm • # 5 
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Iasgair wrote:
.... and I have seen many on summer nights on dirt roads staying warm as I'm driving along squishing them, .


On purpose? I was under the impression they were protected as non-game species in Colorado except where they pose a threat?


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:42 pm • # 6 
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I once ran across a coiled rattler in the middle of Lake Roosevelt coiled and resting . My friend was driving . I tried to put him in the livewell but dig this , he actually dove and swam away under water ! These things always amaze me . They adapt very well . Sometimes I kill them and sometimes I defang them to train peoples dog with then let them go in them desert . The fangs grow back rather quickly .


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:49 pm • # 7 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
Iasgair wrote:
.... and I have seen many on summer nights on dirt roads staying warm as I'm driving along squishing them, .


On purpose? I was under the impression they were protected as non-game species in Colorado except where they pose a threat?


Being protected as non game, I'm not sure about that. I had an Uncle that was a champion rattlesnake hunter, and he would capture them and milk them for anti venom and give it to hospitals. Then he would make jewelry with the rattles and fangs, plus make belts out of the skins. But that was back in the early 1970's, so if things have changed, I'm unaware of it.

But to answer your question, no, not on purpose. They would come out of the brush at night and coil up on the warm dirt roads in the summer, and there would be 20 to 30 a night. The road was windy and deer would be on it too, so I payed more attention for deer crossing the road than looking for snakes. But I have run over more than a few, but not on purpose. Sometimes you could turn the radio in the truck off, and slowly drive by a big rattler and hear it strike the truck. Mean things they are.

jangles wrote:
I know , once you start seeing them it's as though (in my case) I turned into a snake magnet .
I bought the house I am in right now while in foreclosure as the people that lived here had medical bills they couldn't pay due to the lady getting bitten on the front deck by a rattler . I have taken 2 or 3 off the front deck and 1 off the back deck and a few out of the front yard . The one in the house was actually in the laundry room off the back deck . I went out to get a popsicle out of the freezer and heard a buzzing sound and looked down and there he was barely a foot from my bare leg coiled up . I stood still and he slithered behind a "tote" and I back out and shut the door . Came back with 22 and he went wherever snakes go .


I don't know how you sleep at night.
That's a terrible thing about that lady being bitten and they couldn't pay the mortgage because of medical bills.


Last edited by Iasgair on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:56 pm • # 8 
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Having black mambas around me as a child made me very snake weary, to me a snake is a snake and must go to where Jangles sends his. Them and flat dogs ie crocodiles, never trust them.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:47 am • # 9 
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Iasgair: Ah, thanks. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. You've put my mind at ease. In my younger years I worked as a herpetologist, and a big part of my time was spent explaining to people that, notwithstanding their biblical origin story, snakes are not evil, are generally harmlessly going about their business, and play a role in a balanced ecosystem. Absolutely, there are places they do not belong, and its a darn sight safer for someone untrained in snake handling to kill rather than remove a rattler. But I am always disheartened to hear of folks who purposely run over sunning snakes or (even worse) turtles on roads. Or who hack to pieces with hoes, harmless species encountered on their property.

Jangles: I see no culpability on your part for owning a foreclosed home; the owner had clearly already lost it to the bank. But how unfortunate for them. Living in a country with universal health care, I cannot easily wrap my head around this. I don't see this as a political or partisan issue - it feels to me more like a basic human need. Like clean water, secure food supply and shelter. Just my opinion of course
brent


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:16 pm • # 10 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
Iasgair: Ah, thanks. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. You've put my mind at ease. In my younger years I worked as a herpetologist, and a big part of my time was spent explaining to people that, notwithstanding their biblical origin story, snakes are not evil, are generally harmlessly going about their business, and play a role in a balanced ecosystem. Absolutely, there are places they do not belong, and its a darn sight safer for someone untrained in snake handling to kill rather than remove a rattler. But I am always disheartened to hear of folks who purposely run over sunning snakes or (even worse) turtles on roads. Or who hack to pieces with hoes, harmless species encountered on their property.

Jangles: I see no culpability on your part for owning a foreclosed home; the owner had clearly already lost it to the bank. But how unfortunate for them. Living in a country with universal health care, I cannot easily wrap my head around this. I don't see this as a political or partisan issue - it feels to me more like a basic human need. Like clean water, secure food supply and shelter. Just my opinion of course
brent



Brent, to put it shortly, I believe in not harming anyone or anything, unless my life or the life of another is in danger. Live and let live I say. If that snake struck me, I would kill it. But since it showed me that it was as afraid of me as I was of it, it gave me a chance to back off, which I did. So we both, the snake & I, get to enjoy the rest of our days. If a bear came up to me I would give it EVERY chance to leave me alone. If it keeps approaching in a way where it's showing me signs of an attack, I have no choice but to do what I must. I will regret it surely, but when my life is in absolute danger, it's survival of the fittest.

But in Colorado, I have found out is not a state that rattlers are protected at all. Heck, I have even eaten them.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:16 pm • # 11 
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Iasgair wrote:
But in Colorado, I have found out is not a state that rattlers are protected at all. Heck, I have even eaten them.


Thanks for the clarification. I was misinformed, so I dug deeper: Crotalus viridis - Western rattlesnake is obviously the one you're referring to, and although there are two other rattlesnakes in Colorado which ARE protected (Massasaugas and one a subspecies of the Western, oddly named the midget-faced rattlesnake), it appears to be open season on the big-uns.
Here's what I found out from Colorado State University extension service (Bulletin 6.501):

"According to the Colorado Division of Wildlife, it is legal to kill rattlesnakes when necessary to protect life or property, provided that the method used is in accordance with city and county ordinances. Call your local police and animal control departments for details. The most common method to kill a rattlesnake is clubbing or shooting. The midget-faced rattlesnake (a subspecies of the western rattlesnake), the massasauga, and all nonpoisonous snakes are classified as nongame wildlife and are protected by state law, except as noted above."

So, I gotta know - what does it taste like (please don't say 'chicken' :lol ) Anything like alligator? I LIKE alligator!

I always learn something here. Love it.

brent


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:55 pm • # 12 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
Iasgair wrote:
But in Colorado, I have found out is not a state that rattlers are protected at all. Heck, I have even eaten them.


Thanks for the clarification. I was misinformed, so I dug deeper: Crotalus viridis - Western rattlesnake is obviously the one you're referring to, and although there are two other rattlesnakes in Colorado which ARE protected (Massasaugas and one a subspecies of the Western, oddly named the midget-faced rattlesnake), it appears to be open season on the big-uns.
Here's what I found out from Colorado State University extension service (Bulletin 6.501):

"According to the Colorado Division of Wildlife, it is legal to kill rattlesnakes when necessary to protect life or property, provided that the method used is in accordance with city and county ordinances. Call your local police and animal control departments for details. The most common method to kill a rattlesnake is clubbing or shooting. The midget-faced rattlesnake (a subspecies of the western rattlesnake), the massasauga, and all nonpoisonous snakes are classified as nongame wildlife and are protected by state law, except as noted above."

So, I gotta know - what does it taste like (please don't say 'chicken' :lol ) Anything like alligator? I LIKE alligator!

I always learn something here. Love it.

brent



Just my opinion, but the texture is somewhat like chicken, but sweeter and very juicy. Better than chicken .

I forgot about the Massasaugas and the Midget.

In reality, I can't think of anyone here who cares if rattlers in CO. are protected. I think most people I know wouldn't mind killing a rattler just because they are ( or can be dangerous ) which makes me wonder, who is the more dangerous, us or them? Personally, I believe it's all a misunderstanding between snakes and man. Like I said, that snake chose to give me a chance to back away, even though it never rattled. It's a mutual respect I think, which makes me believe they are not out to get us, but just like any animal, they will protect themselves if threatened, just like we would.

Spiders, that's a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:07 pm • # 13 
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I'd agree with you. Rattlers bite for two reasons: to kill prey or to defend themselves. There is no advantage to their survival to seek out and bite something they cannot eat, don't view as prey, or constitutes no threat. In fact, to do so would use up precious physical resources (venom) and energy that they would be better off using to hunt food.
Fair to say that they may interpret a threat where none exists, and bite someone who meant them no harm, but no animal I can think of bites, stings or otherwise causes harm except to defend territory/mates, eat or when under threat. (well, maybe wolverines).
Cannot say the same for humans, not only in the context of harming other species, but in particular in his willingness, at times, to hurt others of his species for no good reason. (although, like the rattlesnake, this often occurs when someone incorrectly perceives a threat from another individual or group where none exists. Politicians are particularly good at convincing people that they are in danger from some arbitrary 'other', that this 'other' is the source of all of their misfortune, and that only he/she holds the key to eliminating that danger. Apparently it works.)
brent.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:54 am • # 14 
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"Cannot say the same for humans, not only in the context of harming other species, but in particular in his willingness, at times, to hurt others of his species for no good reason. (although, like the rattlesnake, this often occurs when someone incorrectly perceives a threat from another individual or group where none exists. Politicians are particularly good at convincing people that they are in danger from some arbitrary 'other', that this 'other' is the source of all of their misfortune, and that only he/she holds the key to eliminating that danger. Apparently it works.)"
brent.

:applause :applause :applause :applause


Last edited by Cliff Hilbert on Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:25 pm • # 15 
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Iasgair wrote:
I went back to the St. Vrain just above the town of Lyons to see if any fish wanted to come out and play. I did bring some up, and was able to hook two, but they got off. It happens. But on the way back to the truck I ran into something that just bewildered me. Here it is, early Nov., and this guy was right on the path basking himself.

Image

I was walking along looking at the creek, and in the corner of my eye I saw something a few feet of me move. I turned my head to see what it was and I was maybe three feet away from heading to the hospital. I never stopped so fast in my life. But I was grateful that it allowed me to take a photo and not strike at me.

This year I have run into bears, moose, ticked off squirrels, rams, and now a rattler. Been a good year in a wild way.


Back in the late 1970's used to wet wade the St Vrain & after encountering baby rattlers swimming along side the banks took great care to see if the momma was around as those waters weren't all that wide while whipping the tip top at little rattlers like when encountering copperheads back east would keep them at bay......


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:20 am • # 16 
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Copperheads maybe but not Moccasins . Had one cross a creek coming for me n hit him with the top ended up having to shoot him about 2 fewet from my leg . Those bastages will go out of their way to bite you , same as a Mohave rattler , had one of those stalking me so I blew his head off . He had struck my 4 wheelers tire just before that .


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:58 pm • # 17 
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jangles wrote:
Copperheads maybe but not Moccasins . Had one cross a creek coming for me n hit him with the top ended up having to shoot him about 2 fewet from my leg . Those bastages will go out of their way to bite you , same as a Mohave rattler , had one of those stalking me so I blew his head off . He had struck my 4 wheelers tire just before that .



One year I had the opportunity to watch two Moccasins fighting over a sunfish at a private farm pond just outside of Parsons KS. It was a good show that lasted about 3 or 4 minutes, till I started to wonder how many more were in the tall grass around me. End of that story.


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:58 am • # 18 
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Iasgair wrote:
One year I had the opportunity to watch two Moccasins fighting over a sunfish at a private farm pond just outside of Parsons KS. It was a good show that lasted about 3 or 4 minutes, till I started to wonder how many more were in the tall grass around me. End of that story.


:lol Sounds prudent to me!
Many years ago I was fishing a pond in South Carolina, and was intrigued to see a gator swimming along the far shore (northerner; what can I say? ;) ) The reeds were quite tall along the shoreline, and out of the corner of my eye I noticed a log a few feet from me, reaching out through the reeds. Looked like a good vantage point from which to see the gator better. I was watching the gator and edging my way toward the log. When the 'log' swung around and dove into the pond, I discovered that some things can be simultaneously both sphincter tightening and sphincter loosening! I don't THINK I squealed like a little girl, but I cannot guarantee that.
brent


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 Post subject: Re: This isn't right
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:01 pm • # 19 
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When I was a teenager living in New Orleans my next door neighbor and I used to go into the swamps and hunt water moccasins. We would catch them using a forked stick, put them in a burlap bag and sell them to a professor at Loyola University who would milk them to use the venom for laboratory studies. When I was in the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton in Liberal Lala Land, otherwise known as California, I loved to go hiking in the hills and catch rattlesnakes. Rattlesnake over an open fire, mmmmmmmm good! Yep, the rattlers and I would sit down next to the fire, tell stories, sing Kumbayeh and then I would whack off their heads and cook them. They did have some pretty good stories to tell me about all the rodents they used to stalk and eat. They wouldn't eat any of the liberal lalas in CA though because they were afraid of being poisoned.


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