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 Post subject: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:05 am • # 1 
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a fly line for my recently acquired txl 00wt rod?

Also, what are you using for UL fly line in general? I have some orvis 1wt line and I like it, but it sure is expensive to replace.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:20 pm • # 2 
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Zeus87 wrote:
Also, what are you using for UL fly line in general? I have some orvis 1wt line and I like it, but it sure is expensive to replace.

Thanks


I like engineered tapers in heavier (+3 wt lines), but when it comes to the UL whips I’m kind of an experimental oddball. Last few years, I’ve been playing with level line alternatives not specifically designed for actual flycasting and love it. For light presentations and short distances, higher # test Spectra braids have served me quite well. Not good roll casters, but standard casts work just fine with small flies and streamers.

Image

New idea that I haven’t wetted yet is SA’s Comp Nymph pictured below. Not sure how it’ll work, but it’s an 80’ $50.00 line which can be cut in half and used on two reels if one desires. If you’re not making long casts and aren’t relying much on roll casts, the options are pretty wide open. Might even try the running line remnants of older flylines and see how they move on your new rod. These rods deflect easily and smoothly under their own movement with no line at all and it doesn’t take much grain weight in lines to be functional flylines. Rods I use are in the mid-1wt to 3 wt range so your 00 should work with most anything to some degree.

Image

With either idea involving low diameter “naught weight” lines, it takes a bit of arbor building even on the little reels. Could use backing, but I like to keep it light & easy with old sections of running lines from heavier, worn-out 3-5 weight outfits. See below, 75’ of 150 PowerPro or 40' of the SA EuroNymph line takes up hardly anything on a Brookie or BVK0.

Image

Image

Most folks think of low diameter line options exclusively for short range/Euro nymph techniques. I use them effectively at more extended distances with standard casting and find them a whole new level of sneaky on small waters. Slight timing adjustments involved depending on what is on the terminal end, but easy to get the hang of after a few casts.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:34 pm • # 3 
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I like Maxcatch and Aventik lines of all sizes and varieties , from WF to shooting lines over to Windcutters and back to sinking tips . These lines do everything the expensive ones do " oh but they wear out " , you might argue ,yeah some do but at $7 to $20 dollars a shot I can buy a helluva lotta line before I scratch the one ones listed here and on other sites . I just don't understand the mindset . Okay , Rant over .


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:46 pm • # 4 
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The 1 wt. lines are out of stock at the moment, but Barrio Small Stream line is about $36 at current exchange rate. I have been using these lines in 2 and 3 weight for the last 3-4 years. These lines are designed for small streams, but are capable of distance casting as well. Mike Barrio is a very good line designer, and has his lines manufactured for him by one of the largest line manufacturers in England. There is no middle man, these lines are sold directly from flylineshop.com and shipped worldwide with free shipping. These lines have proved to be durable, holding up well over last 3+ years. I have no connection with Barrio fly lines other than being a very satisfied customer.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:41 pm • # 5 
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That's not a bad price on the Barrio , I may try it when it gets back in stock .


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:37 pm • # 6 
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I tend to go a route which is similar to that of knotjoe. For lines of 1-weight or lower, I use twisted nylon line (much like what masons would use for dry lines) but the commercial fishermen around here use for making their destructive nets. They come in different diameters and get about three coats of a mixture consisting of linseed oil, spar varnish and mineral spirits. That increases the weight by about 40% and the lines get weighed until they're right. Nylon has a higher specific gravity than Spectra, so they turn out to be intermediate lines that sink slowly unless treated with some dressing. There have also been some inconclusive experiments with making furled lines.

Really, when you get below a 1-weight outfit, obtaining a suitable line is perhaps the biggest difficulty, but that kind of ultralight sure is fun!


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:00 pm • # 7 
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You should look into floating running line . I get it from "guess who" and it works great on my 0 wt .


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:28 am • # 8 
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jangles:
I haven't been very impressed with the Chinese floating lines to be honest -- and this somebody who uses a lot of Maxcatch, Aventik, KastKing etc gear and generally sings their praises. I have used several of those lines and probably won't buy another. The coating isn't that slick from the outset and they crack fairly quickly. Sure, they're $10, but I think for floating lines you get a lot more line for $20-$30.

Larry:
Count me as another vote for Barrio lines, they are excellent. I have never used the UL lines as they are never in stock, but I have his DT6 and DT7 lines on a couple of my heavier rods and like them a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:36 pm • # 9 
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I have this running line and I use it on my 0wt RDP . It works good for me . I don't mind paying this amount especially no more than I use it . YMMV
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100FT-Fly-Fish ... x90YJny1NQ


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:45 pm • # 10 
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I do what I think Jangles is implying. I buy cheap lines, cut them up into 21 ft lengths and then add 15 lb running line to them. 21 ft is length I pick up and cast, no false casting, and the line doesn't have to run through the guides, so it doesn't matter how cheap the line is when it comes to the problem of cheap lines not casting well. I weight the 21 ft lengths and mark them for the appropriate line weight (21 ft is about 2/3 of line weight).
Only problem I have with the cheap lines: they absorb water which shakes off on the cast, so you see a sprinkle of water droplets as the cast extends. It's not noticeable if there is wind, the usual weather in Texas, but if there is no wind I can reach for one of my reels with conventional line.
I would imagine if I purchased some cheap 2 wt line and sectioned it up,there would be a piece in there suitable for a 0 wt.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:33 am • # 11 
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Thanks guys.

I will be emailing Barrio to see when he expects to have 1wt and 2wt line in stock.

I use orvis (SA?) hydros 1wt line on my 1wt superfine, but I was hoping to find something a bit lighter for the 00wt as I feel it defeats the purpose if I'm going to throw a 1wt line with it.

I will have to look into "running lines" as I'm not familiar with them. Being able to cast 30' feet of line is a must given some of the streams I fish


Thanks again!
Justin


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:49 pm • # 12 
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I did a quick online search for 1 weight lines for sale, and found 1 and 2 weight lines on clearance at stonecreekltd.com. I don't know who makes these lines, but they regularly list at about $50, and are on clearance for $15 at this time.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:14 pm • # 13 
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knotjoe wrote:
Zeus87 wrote:
Also, what are you using for UL fly line in general? I have some orvis 1wt line and I like it, but it sure is expensive to replace.

Thanks


I like engineered tapers in heavier (+3 wt lines), but when it comes to the UL whips I’m kind of an experimental oddball. Last few years, I’ve been playing with level line alternatives not specifically designed for actual flycasting and love it. For light presentations and short distances, higher # test Spectra braids have served me quite well. Not good roll casters, but standard casts work just fine with small flies and streamers.


Knotjoe, I’m with you on the idea of using alternative materials and level line when going below 1-weight. It’s just that the materials I have used (nylon and polypropylene) are different. We have seen the use of dyneema or Spectra come up on this forum before, but only superficially. Anyway, the OP was talking about something specifically for a 00-weight rod. That would mean a line that weighs about 45 grains over thirty feet, at least in theory. Based on your experience, what # test of Spectra would you recommend for that?


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:07 am • # 14 
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PampasPete wrote:
That would mean a line that weighs about 45 grains over thirty feet, at least in theory. Based on your experience, what # test of Spectra would you recommend for that?


What I use is exactly what’s in the picture (150 lb PowerPro) and settled on that partly for castabilty and partly for line handling between the reel and first stripper guide. Low diameter lines are like that…less size and body to the physical line and a pile at your feet (or in moving water) tends to get messy. I’ve done 65, 80, 100,150 and like the last best even when broken in and wet.

No idea for grain weight (wet, dry, or greased/dressed) and can’t say for certain how any of that actually applies under the 3 wt in level or alternative lines. Spectra is indeed light, yet it has great energy transfer with low stretch and a narrow diameter that slices through air quite easily. Betting some of the same applies for your twisted nylon lines and it makes it hard to actually cross reference to the grain weight charts and the materials they use. Grain weight "requirements" might change a bit when we change materials, distribution of material, surface and it seems like it'd have to in some aspects.

I’ve cast early Sages in the 0-00-(whatever :lol ) and the line-to-rod dynamic always felt kinda strange and undergunned to move the line designed for them. Yeah, I’m somewhat familiar with the charts and numbers, but on the light extremes it just feels like it works a bit differently than say a 5 wt or 8 wt scenario. I think it might be very difficult for companies to dial it in properly at low grain weights using typical line construction methods and materials, hence the lack of many options on the light end. Great body and handling, but when you get fatter on the head with low density materials, the drag and resistance in air and on turnover seems to fight the very limited (mover) grain weight like a SOB. Line speed can be a solution, but even with a d-haul it’s elusive to achieve with these blanks. Reluctance of line companies to delve into this one with a lot of R&D is understandable, as the numbers lower it’s a tricky concept to pull off with the same materials and production design.

The above is why I don't measure the grain weight and prefer to try line experiments out on the water with various flies and rigs. It appears to function on a lot of variables, far more than I can comprehend and meaningfully quantify in numbers as it applies to casting. Industry lines and alternative lines can be two very different beasts and they probably don't fit well on the same grain weight charts.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:16 pm • # 15 
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This is a great thread! I just went out and played with casting some generic 4 strand 60lb (0.40 mm diameter) PE Spectra braid that I use for backing and reel filler. Way too light for my 0wt RDP, not really loading the rod at all with 30' out. It laid out well downwind (slight breeze) but would not punch into the wind much at all. I'll try to source some heavier braid and repeat my testing.

Edit: Was going to add I really like the idea of braid as a potential UL line, it's got nearly zero memory and zero stretch. No taper, but I don't know how big a deal that is -- I'm a young whippersnapper but I'm told you old farts used to fish with level fly lines all the time. Also, have made some longish tapered furled leaders. Presumably that same concept could be used with very fine braid (or thread) to make 40' of taper fly line. I think I read somewhere this was how fly lines were made with horsehair in the olden days. Anybody played with this?


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:07 pm • # 16 
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I finally got around to satisfying my curiosity after PampasPete’s inquiry and weighed a few materials. Be it 150 lb PP, SA Comp Nymph, or just plain ol’running line, they all fall well below the 45 grains. This was “rough gauged” on a little postal scale (the dangling roach clip kind) and I converted grams to grains. Petty much confirmed my theory rambled on above. What they lack in weight seems functionally offset by the lack of drag and surface area to a large extent. I get good speed, too, so that’s a factor in being able to move the lines and offerings around as well.

lka wrote:
Also, have made some longish tapered furled leaders. Presumably that same concept could be used with very fine braid (or thread) to make 40' of taper fly line. I think I read somewhere this was how fly lines were made with horsehair in the olden days. Anybody played with this?


Yeah, you sure are lookin’ to open a can of worms on this. Or maybe just some fibers twisted, furled, or braided that resemble long worms. :P Y’all started going there with furls, varnish, etc. so I’ll dutifully play along with enthusiasm. You’ve probably seen it before on the web from the mind of Mr. Bett’s and while not furled, it is pretty neat...

Image

Here’s the link, there’s some sample pages (handwritten) and if you scroll down, there is also a slide show function and brief description which is where the pic came from. I'm still impressed that they were able to do this, it's imagination at it's finest put into functional form.

http://www.reellinespress.com/fly-lines ... -them.html

Never made an actual flyline out of the idea for myself, but did about 10’ just to see what threading mono through Dacron is like. Certainly doable, but I live in gar and sticker burr country which dacron does not get along with. However, there is such a thing as hollow braid (PowerPro HollowAce) and some Jerry Brown products which may be up to task. Best thing? They sell HollowAce in 100 yd leader spools up to 200lb. Not sure where it all goes, but I really dig the idea of customized weight distribution below the industry standards set for the thicker PVC lines. Yeah, I’ll be trying something with this in the future just for body/stiffness and handling experiments. Even up at 150 lb, braid is a limp line for flycasting and improvements are certainly desirable. Not sure how sheathings would work there or how the fibers would take treatment or dressings as described in other methods, but it feels like fertile territory for experiments. Don't see myself needing a full 90' of this idea, either. Just something with more punch and carry short range and nicer handling inbetween the reel and 1st stripper.

Funny how it all seems to come back around full circle on these things sometimes. Horsehair, silk, furled, braided, super fibers…no escaping the tradition I guess, even for me.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:14 pm • # 17 
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lka wrote:
This is a great thread! I just went out and played with casting some generic 4 strand 60lb (0.40 mm diameter) PE Spectra braid that I use for backing and reel filler. Way too light for my 0wt RDP, not really loading the rod at all with 30' out. It laid out well downwind (slight breeze) but would not punch into the wind much at all. I'll try to source some heavier braid and repeat my testing.

Edit: Was going to add I really like the idea of braid as a potential UL line, it's got nearly zero memory and zero stretch. No taper, but I don't know how big a deal that is -- I'm a young whippersnapper but I'm told you old farts used to fish with level fly lines all the time. Also, have made some longish tapered furled leaders. Presumably that same concept could be used with very fine braid (or thread) to make 40' of taper fly line. I think I read somewhere this was how fly lines were made with horsehair in the olden days. Anybody played with this?


A couple years back I did try making a furled tapered fly line. Let’s try this link.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=11579&hilit=DIY+fly+line

It may or may not work. The experiment was mostly successful.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am • # 18 
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Good link on furling, I'm kinda digesting just what this involves and if it could be used as an inner core under a braided sleeve. Working with a full 90' seems a bit daunting, but I would be looking more in the 40' foot range.

Find myself wondering how well fabric paints and fabric glues mate with these materials. I use them indoors and outdoors on many projects and their durability is astounding. Form of flexible weight in non-toxic formula and could help add some stiffness to some materials. Not sure as an outer surface, but around a furled core in braided sleeve, perhaps a useful material addition. Furled anything has some very friendly surfaces and pores to work with if coatings are used.


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:28 am • # 19 
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I had a txlf 00 I ran a long mono leader on it, preferred it over the rio trout lt dt 00wt

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: 000-1wt line?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:24 am • # 20 
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tc_sutton wrote:
I had a txlf 00 I ran a long mono leader on it, preferred it over the rio trout lt dt 00wt

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


But you dont cast , you are a nympher , remember ? lol


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