GuideGun, welcome to the forum!

The sub-zero UL fly rods and lines have become hard to find, especially new ones. What come to my mind are the RDP rods and blanks in IM6 carbon fiber, especially the 5’8” model. I don’t know of anything that is currently being produced below a 0-weight, but there might be something. Another option would be to stay on the lookout for a used Sage 000-weight rod or line.

Brent, I honestly don’t know why the 00- and 000-weights ceased to be produced and commercialized and therefore I can only speculate.

Reading some of the earlier posts about the subject, we can see that those line weights were always a bit controversial. They were in fact never made official by the AFTMA/AFFTA; they were simply designated as such by Sage. Later on the manufacturer even changed the actual grain weights of the lines. Very few others, if any, made rods for those line weights, and it is doubtful if anyone else commercially made lines in those weights.

Perhaps we can see something similar with other ultralight line weights. Some bamboo rod makers offered rods for line sizes that are equivalent to 2- and 3-weights between 1895 and 1920. Those were apparently forgotten about until ultralight fly rods came back into being in the 1970s or ‘80s.

Now let’s look on the bright side. Perhaps the concept of 00- and 000-weight lines and rods is a fantastic idea whose time has simply not yet come. I think that what GuideGun proposes is the ideal application for such tackle: fishing certain waters for brook trout.

When you get down to the lines for the ultra lite's is where it gets really controversial, as well as contradicting to actual approved line wts.

SAGE (TXL / QT) Standards Chart
Fly Line Rating: Ideal Weight (grains): (1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains) Acceptable Grain Range: *Estimate*
000 wt 57 56-58
00 wt 60 59-62
0 wt 65 63-67

AFTMA FLY Line Standards Chart
Fly Line Rating: Ideal Weight (grains): (1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains) Acceptable Grain Range:
1 wt 60 54-66
2 wt 80 74-86
3 wt 100 94-106
4 wt 120 114-126
5 wt 140 134-146

While I have built both 0wt and 1wt (both 7'6") I really could not in all reality determine too much difference in the 2

From what I've read, that SPL sounds exactly like the rod I'm looking for. Now to find one.

In order to read an interesting discussion of the topic in an old thread, you can use the search function of this forum and type in “Rio Trout UL Fly Lines”.

Canefly, thanks for the info on Terenzio artificial silk lines. It makes sense that “silk” lines would be a good option, as the first truly UL fly lines were made of silk well over a hundred years ago. Here, incidentally, is an interesting old thread about UL silk lines.

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=459

For me it was a breakthough when I started using nylon for fly lines. That is, the twisted (furled) nylon that is used here by commercial fisherman for their destructive gill nets, which is just like what is used by carpenters and masons in the US for their dry lines. It’s basically a matter of finding the right diameter to provide the correct weight when treated and then having dressing applied.

I have used them in the following weights: 35-38 grains (0-weight?), 54 grains (0- or 1-weight), and 78 grains (2-weight). They work fine for me, and the key to making sub-zero rods work out well is finding an appropriate line.

Terenzio used Rio’s grain weight chart from 12 years back or so!
This was as follows-
1wt-60
0wt-53
00wt-47
000wt-40

Interestingly the Rio grain weight chart for the LT DT
Now reads as follows-
1wt-66
0wt-58
00wt-50
000wt-40
The newer Rio Light line also follows this newer chart.
But its the older one he goes by!
Which is good because 0wt is 53 grains and outside of the AFTM standard of
54-66 grains for a 1wt
I have no connection to Terenzio,just like using his lines btw

That is great Pete!
According to Bill Byrd? When the TXL 000wt 1st came out,he said it was 32 grain rod! Then the lines made were 60 odd grains haha
Yours is a true 000 or off the scale!
Funny? Earlier I was thinking about converting an ultralight casting rod that is also 5ft10” and much much lighter than a Sage 000wt!
This leads me to the OP’s post?
Rods much lighter can be made and a few countries could make them!
So isn’t there a market for them?

Last year I had a 5ft7” 0wt S-Glass built by
Rawson Uk
Its a sweet stick in tight brush