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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:17 pm • # 61 
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Thanks for th reply David. We are drifting way off topic, but I agree with your comments. Don


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:28 pm • # 62 
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Zenkoanhead wrote:
I also came to the wrong conclusion concerning Jerry's observation and TXL ratings.
Not surprising at all.  This is one of those threads that has taken on a life of its own.  No telling where it will end up. Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:04 pm • # 63 
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David Gale wrote:
Actually, playing a big fish on a really light rod is disturbing to me.  When I was into chucking bass plugs on a casting stick with a level wind reel, I believed that you get more from a big fish from a bigger rod (to a point) than you do from an UL rod.  IMHO, the same holds true for fly rods....which is why I don't understand why some of you prefer to play 20" Browns on TXL 000 Sage rods.  I think you can get more from the fish by putting more pressure on the fish.    


  

Well, well, well what do we have here??

I have seen this posted by some people on other forums in the past. Typically when I have asked; they 1. Have never even fished a TXL let alone a TXL 000wt and 2. They can never seem to answer a simple question.

So I will pose the same question in this thread: Please explain to me how you think that it is physically possible to apply more pressure to a (for sh!ts and giggles) 20â€



Last edited by Sasha on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:07 pm • # 64 
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CCS is a starting point....It gives us a general idea where to start with a line for a particular rod regardless of what the manufacturer marks on it....But, then again 3 different people could more than likely get 3 different readings...I mean we are talking pennies in bags here...not exactly rocket science.....I like to know where to start lining a particular rod but, have found I need to get a certain "feel" to enjoy casting and presenting my fly...I do not pick any of my rods up to use that day according to the line weight anyhow...just the situation I am fishing in or the need to switch things up a bit....but, when I do pick one up I know it is matched with the correct line for me...and that could be one or more size up from the CCS rating or possibly in the other direction....I also do not pick a rod to get a better fight from a fish....I lean toward 3 weight rods....I like how they cast and feel....I have a 1 and a 2 weight and enjoy fishing with them, but not because of their size...Mostly because how they feel when I cast them....The actual catching of a fish I would still lean toward a 3wt....Just a personal preference...Heck, I just fish for bluegill and the occasional bass or catfish...I really do not feel the need to get overly technical with my equipment...Just feel the need to have fun with it and enjoy the tug of a nice fish or the tug of the rod when it loads on the backcast and lays out line where I want it to...only reason I do this is for fun and that is all that really matters to me...As for CCS being a good or a bad thing...Well, like my old friend from Tn used to say to me in his mountain drawl..."Its just a thang" :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:28 pm • # 65 
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Sasha wrote:
David Gale wrote:
Actually, playing a big fish on a really light rod is disturbing to me.  When I was into chucking bass plugs on a casting stick with a level wind reel, I believed that you get more from a big fish from a bigger rod (to a point) than you do from an UL rod.  IMHO, the same holds true for fly rods....which is why I don't understand why some of you prefer to play 20" Browns on TXL 000 Sage rods.  I think you can get more from the fish by putting more pressure on the fish.    


  

Well, well, well what do we have here??

I have seen this posted by some people on other forums in the past. Typically when I have asked; they 1. Have never even fished a TXL let alone a TXL 000wt and 2. They can never seem to answer a simple question.

So I will pose the same question in this thread: Please explain to me how you think that it is physically possible to apply more pressure to a (for sh!ts and giggles) 20â€



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:28 pm • # 66 
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[quote="Sasha"]

However it does “disturbâ€



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:46 pm • # 67 
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Interesting thread.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:56 pm • # 68 
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I totally agree with Sasha.
This is the bass that broke my 1wt this year! A month later, with the rod repaired, I caught a even bigger fish / trout and the rod is still like new. I was "sliding" the bass on the bank with a full rod bend! I was testing maximum bend with a heavy fish. My bad! Ouch!!!!  I had the FREE Orvis guarantee, so I took it to the limit!
Practice makes perfect!!
I agree that any fish under 10lbs can be landed nicely on a UL rod.
Why fish with a broomstick?

Image
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:40 pm • # 69 
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[quote="jdub"][quote="Sasha"]

However it does “disturbâ€



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:49 pm • # 70 
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I got a bit off topic there and I am sorry.  If I get time Sunday, I will do a little experiment...just to rock the boat....kinda feel a bit like rocking the boat this week.  I am going to take my Dennison reel which has a Sage QDT 00wt line rolled on it and do some lawn casting with various rods starting with my Cabelas PT+ 2wt and ending with my Sage 290gr Smallmouth.  I'll report back with some info on casting distances accomplished with such drastically underlining. 


Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:51 pm • # 71 
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David Gale wrote:
To each his/her own.  I guess when I am holding a fine, delicate UL fly rod in my hands, I am NOT thinking "4X Tippet". 
That's probably where a lot of the disagreement comes from.  I've cast a couple of those little wispy rods that you got from Don.  A TXL is not a delicate wispy rod... at all.  Image

With regards to tippet, I think your .243 on an elk analogy is closer to using 8X tippet when 4X will do the job.  Both may endanger the game a bit more than many feel necessary.

I realize of course that you have no choice on light tippet for some of the extremely small flies you have to use so I'm not in any way saying you should use something heavier.  For the fishing down here I use 3X and 4X almost all the time--I use fish flies and have no reason to go smaller for most warm water fish.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:54 pm • # 72 
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1wt wrote:
I've found that the super high modulus graphite rods are all fast...... and expensive!! And flex back very fast. If you put expensive graphite on a skinny rod it will flex fast and bend all the way to the cork. A fast rod that is designed to have a slow action.
I think this is very well said and describes my thoughts exactly.
I don't know that much about CCS, etc. but find it helpful as a guide and have used it in deciding what rod to try out or buy (especially reading the FFO 2 weight shootout). 
My 2wt TXL (which I'm crazy about) feels perfect with the DT2 Quiet Taper line from Sage.  I haven't tried it with any other line weight because I haven't felt the need(I've use it with Sage Performance Taper WF2 for fishing lakes and distance applications while I use the DT for moving water as it's easier to mend and roll cast though I'd be happy with only the DT).
One thing I really like about the TXL is the OVERALL feel.  I can feel the cast, the fly and the 'fish on'.  All of it.  It's a sensitive rod to ALL aspects of fishing.  I really like my 1 wt SPL which is a softer actioned rod but I think I get better overall feeling/sensitivity from the TXL.  I've also noticed that the initial hookup with the fish is better with the TXL.  As 1wt alludes to above, I feel the TXL has a faster reflex and this helps with light-biting fish and the tip itself sets the hook opposed to the SPL where it takes more of my skill to feel the fish and set the hook.
Does that make sense?
It's funny to me that nearly all of the rod company advertising I see has to do with the 'casting' feel rather than the overall feel including: casting, fly and fish on.  Casting is important but it's not everything to catching fish. 
Great discussion, by the way.  Very thought provoking.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:04 pm • # 73 
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David Gale wrote:
  I guess when I am holding a fine, delicate UL fly rod in my hands, I am NOT thinking "4X Tippet". 
Hey!!! Sasha can't cast a 6X or 7X! It's hard to cast a fine leader. He is still learning!
He has fun with his huge Stimulators on a heavy leader with a tiny rod. Don't make fun of him, he's my friend. He actually thinks that he is UL fishing! LOL
And please don't comment on his ski mask in his new posts!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:11 pm • # 74 
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David Gale wrote:
 I'll report back with some info on casting distances accomplished with such drastically underlining. 
I'm not sure anyone is advocating underlining in this thread.  I don't think fishing a TXL 000 with a 000 line is considered underlining.  It's the line weight the rod was specifically designed for. 

Since most of my rods are faster actions I think they're pretty lousy when going much lighter than the marked line weight.  Unlike overlining a fast rod, where you can easily go up 3 or more line weights and still have a rod that casts fairly well, I think performance drops off very rapidly when going lighter.

I tried a 6' 1 wt Scott F a few months ago with a 00 line because it was all I had with me.  It sucked.  Image
 


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:16 pm • # 75 
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David,

I wasn’t attacking your preferences in fishing methods. Hell I am more likely to pick up my 5wt ZG when fishing that river. Why you may ask? Well the answer is simple. While the TXL was fun on those fish casting a weighted triple nymph rig and an indicator basically sucked. I also love the “fish onâ€



Last edited by Sasha on Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:25 pm • # 76 
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A couple weeks ago I purchased some "Silver Label" Orvis line for $19 and it seems to work great for me!
I have a 1wt Superfine and I overlined with a 2wt WF floating. My $69 Orvis Superfine 1wt line isn't nearly as good.
Welded loop, beautiful Buckskin color, and under 20 bucks with free shipping...... what more could I ask for?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:25 pm • # 77 
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1wt wrote:
David Gale wrote:
  I guess when I am holding a fine, delicate UL fly rod in my hands, I am NOT thinking "4X Tippet". 
Hey!!! Sasha can't cast a 6X or 7X! It's hard to cast a fine leader. He is still learning!
He has fun with his huge Stimulators on a heavy leader with a tiny rod. Don't make fun of him, he's my friend. He actually thinks that he is UL fishing! LOL
And please don't comment on his ski mask in his new posts!


  

Nah I haven’t had any of my UL gear out since mid OCT. It’s all about swinging flies with the 503 grain two hander this time of year. FYI those lake run rainbows you got out there aren’t real steelhead Image

 Hmmm the browns should be done with the spawn by now. Maybe I will take a trip there this week with the SPL or SLT so I can post a report here it has been a while. Actually I haven’t been posting any reports anywhere the past couple of months.



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:07 am • # 78 
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What a great thread this has been so far....very informative, thought provoking, and civil....I hope our members realize that on just about any other forum this discussion could have went south in a hurry...but here we all are gentleman, we respect each other skills and opinions, and even if we might disagree in our views. we remain civil and tolerant...That, my friends, is what makes this forum the best fly fishing forum on the web....Thanks J.....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:25 am • # 79 
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Guys, I think you forgot that the CCS is a system to:

1.- How to accurately determine the proper casting or line weight for any blank
2.- How to define and rate any blank’s action, power and strength
3.- How to determine how trimming will affect a blank - before the cut is made

So is more than line weight, it also tries to make a standard of how the action is declared across rods. Think of this:what tells you: medium-fast action betwen brands... if you try diferent brands that rate their rods medium-fast action you realize not one is equal to the other. If you get 4 designations:

slow action
medium action
medium-fast action
fast action

From diferent manufacturers, can you tell if all are standard, i.e. a slow sage action feels the same as a slow Ross rod?

Now, think of Orvis, what you get here is a standard rating system from 2.5 to 12.5 (if I can remember well) to define the action of the rod, no matter what rod you pick from Orvis the 5.5 well be an equal action among all models

Thats CCS, a standard to tell you what to expect from different rods, even if they are made from different manufacturers.

So back to the topic, I dont think the CCS is a bad thing, I think is a good thing. What we need to do is understand what the system is all about

http://www.common-cents.info/part1.pdf
http://www.common-cents.info/part2.pdf

And so on (http://www.common-cents.info/)

Tight lines!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:11 am • # 80 
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Jerry, you made a good point about David's rods setting the context for some of his comments on this thread. A TXL is not anything like a Dan Craft Sig IV or a UL bamboo. You would be pretty much nuts to attempt to horse in a big fish on those rods. Field testing a UL rod to the breaking point and then replacing it under warranty does not apply to custom sticks! I remember one of the reasons Jerry sent a cane up to David was a bad experience with a big fish. Rob did the same thing, as I recall. Both David and I are hardcore UL guys, and David is THE guy when it comes to 4/0, 5/0 and lighter rods. To inject some levity here, David knows that if he were to handle my rods the way some handle their factory rods, I would grab that .243 and shoot HIM!

I like the idea of underlining some of my pet combos to see what happens. The action of the rod changes a lot, and we tend to think you can only go up. Not so. I discovered that some 5 weight cane Banty's I cobbled up would cast a 2 weight line nicely. I should not have reported that though because now Jerry will claim it was a 2 weight all along and I don't want to get caught agreeing with him twice in the same thread.


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