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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:27 am • # 1 
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Hello Everyone.

I live in indiana and have been wanting to get into fly fishing for some time. I was ready to buy one of the TFO NXT in a 4/5 weight setup but after reading information from www.byrdultrafly.com I am thinking that ultralight is the path to go. I fish almost exclusively from a solo canoe and mostly in local creeks at the headwaters of a reservoir for crappie, white bass, and blue gill with an occasional smallie. I currently use a light spinning rig.

I typically buy high quality tools and equipment(durability, not necessarily the most expensive or fanciest finished) because I find it cheaper in the long run.

For reel I am thinking about a lamson radius 1.5 as the prices on madison river fishing company are quite attractive right now or would the extra 30 bucks really be worth it to go to a velocity 1.5 for .2 ounce weight savings?

I am thinking of a TFO 4 piece 3wt finesse around 8' long as the lifetime warranty sounds good? Is there other rods out there that are slow action(is this what I want for short stream work?) and the company witll replace a broken tip if it gets damaged for some reason at a reasonable cost?

Also in reading this forum and other sites it is quite apparent that the line needs to be matched to the rod, and I don't have the money right now to be buy 2 or 3 different lines just to check to see which one does the best, so please recommend lines with rod recommendations.

What other accessories to I need to consider to get started?
I have the orvis flyfishing book but it is geared towards 4 wt and above.

It looks as of right now the plant I work at is having one week layoffs beginning in April so i will have lots of fishing time but not an excess of money. So please, quality but not expensive gear recommendations.


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:54 am • # 2 
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Hi there Firebrick43 and welcome to the ultralight fly fishers forum!

I have a couple of questions:
Have you fly fished before?
Have you gone to a local fly shop to try equipment?

Not to dissuade you from UL, but the TFO NXT 4/5 is a great light rig for a beginner. True UL 3wt and under may take a little time to master. The feel and muscle memory is best developed by feeling the rod load up- you'll notice this is easier to feel in a heavier weight rod. If you decide to keep going on the smaller rod track, then visit our Classifieds section - there are some deals there too.
Keep asking questions and you'll get a better feel for what to buy.

Les


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:05 pm • # 3 
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The classifieds are the way to go. I am usually re-sell bamboo, but most of us (including me!) have graphite rods that will take care of your needs at less expense than a new rod. Pearow can build you a great UL. However, you do get a warranty with most new rods. Might be easier to tell us what you want and how much you have to spend and we can direct you to new or used equipment. Les is right about rod loading, but I think you can learn on the proper 3 weight. Don


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:45 pm • # 4 
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I think a 3 wt would work well too, if you get one with a nice medium to medium-fast action, but I agree with Les and probably wouldn't go much lighter for a first rod. I have a TFO Finesse 8'9" 3 wt and you can really feel it load and unload while you cast. I think a lot of guys will agree that the ability to easily feel the rod load and unload is one of things that will help you learn quickly. Of course an 8'9" 3 wt is kind of pushing the definition of UL :-) It's a fun rod to cast though.

I also have a 7'6" Cabela's TQR 3 wt that I would not recommend to a beginner because it is a fast action that you really have to concentrate on to feel what it's doing.

BTW, wecome, and good luck!

Jerry


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:06 pm • # 5 
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Honestly, I taught myself on a Cabela's Three Forks 7'6" 3wt outfit with their cheap fly line (Cortland 333 WF3F) and I caught many many fish on that. I would ask what your budget for this is, You can do very well for less than $300. I would recommend picking up an Orvis Battenkill 3/4 disc and a TFO Finesse 7'9" 3wt. You will feel that rod load when you cast.


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:22 pm • # 6 
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Welcome to one of the best sites on the 'net.

Not to dissuade you from anything........but my first fly fishing outfit was from the sporting goods section of Wal-Mart. I bought a 9' 5/6 wt Shakepeare "kit" that included the rod, reel, fly line, backing, 5 flys and a little book that covered the basics of knot tying and fly casting. All this for like $24.95 I think.

I gave the rod away a couple of years ago - not because of it's lack of stellar pedigree, but because I like shorter rods. I caught a TON of blue gills and large mouth bass on the rod. It was fiberglass, and by virtue of the material gave me invaluable casting lessons because I could feel the long, slow(ish) rod load and unload.

Think closely about the conditions you fish in.......do you need a shorter rod?.....maybe look for virsatility in owning a single rod that can do everything - including an occasional trip slinging heavier flies like poppers for bigger bass?.....is the lifetime gurantee really that important to you?......think about buying a custom rolled rod from a builder here - like Pearow (Gene) to save some money and get exactly what you are looking for - I think he even guarantees his work......maybe even look on ebay for something vintage.....or used......do you really "need" a reel with a drag?......I've NEVER used the drag on a fly reel and have caught fish over 7 pounds - so that could be an area to save cash on and allocate more to the rod or line.....

Lots to consider and the guys here can for sure help you out!

Welcome to the obsession (even if like me you don't collect gear.....I still spend the majority of my day thinking about fly fishing!).....

David


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:25 am • # 7 
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Keebranch asked
"I have a couple of questions:
Have you fly fished before?
Have you gone to a local fly shop to try equipment? "

In reply

Sort of, an acquaintance that I go canoing with once a year with or so on club trips was fly fishing one day and he was kind enough to answer some questions and tech me to cast. It was only an hour or two, and he had just an old eagle claw fiberglass rod in 6 wt if I remember correctly.

The local fly shop here is a sportsman warehouse the the high school/college kid behind the counter gets that deer in the headlight look when asking questions and then obviously starts to rattle off things they make up. The closest real fly shop is a four hour round trip away. I have talked to the them over the phone and they don't deal in anything under 4 weight.

Others ask my budget, In all honesty right now I can afford a 1000 dollar outfit, however, do to the current market conditions I need to keep that in the savings account healthy, layoffs are coming at my plant and I don't know how far they will go. I am not a gear nut just like to have highly durable and some what nice things, I don't pay for the latest fads or fancy finish. I have found buying something in this range keeps me from upgrading soon and spending more money in the long run.

As far as length goes. Long rods are ok as long as they are 4 section because of storing them in my canoe and traveling in my car.

Warranties, well I don't think they are that important in a way. I know I might break a tip because of the canoeing, and a lifetime warranty on a tfo would be nice, but I would also buy a rod that the maker would sell me the tip section only at a fair reasonable price (~25$ range). Most store/manufactures just want to sell you a new rod however?

I saw this last night and it looked interesting. Its not availible though ross anymore, although their cheaper FS line combo is. What do you guys think?
http://www.sierratradingp...Piece-Flycast-Reel-1.html

Thank you
Jay


Last edited by Firebrick43 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:04 am • # 8 
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Personally I think anything from the big makers - Ross, TFO, Echo, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Albright, Cortland, Redington, etc etc will be good gear. True - the specific action of a specific rod might be a little different, or the fit and finish of a specific rod might be different based upon the manufacturer, but those factors won't necessarily affect the "fishability" of the outfit.

What you'll find in the lower price ranges (anything below $200 - $250 probably) is that the rods are made in the Far East (Korea and China), which really isn't a bad thing becuase they are turning out some really nice gear. But I would also be willing to bet that there are only a couple of big companies that are churning out all the rods then slapping different decals and sending them to different American Companies. So, again, I would be willing to bet that the less expensive (not cheap) Ross rods and reels are made in the same factory as the Cortland and Redington and Albright and TFO and Echo and Cabelas and Bass Pro branded gear.

I've seen the Orvis mid arbor reel, and it looks remarkably like the Pflueger Trion. I even have it on good faith that they are indeed made by the same far eastern company.

(I was heavily involved in the bicycle business about 15 years ago and learned that all the bicycles in the lower price ranges were being manufactured this way and then branded with different decals. I bet it's the same with fishing tackle.)

I think that regardless of what you do with your first purchase, you'll soon refine your fly fishing skills and desires in fly fishing gear, and eventually will want something different to meet specific needs. I know this happened to me and has led me to building my own rods. It isn't that hard to turn out something that will save you money, be immensly satisfying to use, and while maybe not showroom quality will never-the-less be something that you can be proud to own and use.

David


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:01 am • # 9 
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David, the capacities of the Orvis and the Pflueger are completely different, so I doubt they are made in the same plant, but you are right about many of the products being made and relabeled. If I were in your situation right now, I would pick up a 7'9" 3wt TFO Finesse, along with an Orvis BBS II and a DT3F Hook and Hackle fly line. You would be looking at a total expense of around $350 plus tax.


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:52 am • # 10 
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Yikes! If you want to get started for well under $200, give me or Pearow a holler. I can't warranty any of my rod blanks though. I have a brand new Cabela's rod that I could set up for you. Don


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:16 am • # 11 
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Wish I would have seen that Andy a little sooner.

I pulled the trigger on the ross set, it was the closest combo in weight to UL, as most other combos are a 4/5 weight. I used a code for 20% off so it was about a 135 dollars for a combo that sold originally for 250 dollars, not bad I hope. If anyone else wants to use the code, HRK87887, I think it can only be used one more time. Good untill the 13th of feb. Do a search and you can find codes for 15% to.

Thanks, I will keep in touch and might buy one of those custom rods in a true 2wt later after I get some expirence.
Thank You
Jay


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:24 am • # 12 
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Jay,
Nice job on the purchase. Be sure and report back on that new set up; there's a room full of folks interested in seeing what you think. ;)

Les


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:37 pm • # 13 
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Nice Jay.

Take a picture and post it here of the outfit when you get it....and also of that first fish!!!

Congrats!

David


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:15 pm • # 14 
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NICE! Good pick up!


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:48 pm • # 15 
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A very interesting question. Ive taught perhaps a couple hundred people how to fly fish and gotten them started, from the kids in the local scouts to very retired seniors. Here we have a large lake, a large river and a varity of fishing conditions from below freezing to summer off the desert 116 days. Winds that gust to +80mph with constants around 25-30mph in summer months. Washout in the river during peak flow. Almost no flow downstream of the lake and **** around November not counting current rainfalll during winter.
As such I start people up here with a 5/6wt rod. Normally in the 6 1/2ft to 8ft lengths, just depending on what I can pickup on Evilbay or at one of the local marketers in almost nearby (80 miles west to Bakersfield) in our local Walmart etc.
Choices, well in the price range for our scouts and seniors, they are donated rods by myself and others, same holds true for the reels and everything else. But even at deep discounts, rods from ebay with usable reels and line, rods sold cheap on ebay, mostly old glass or early glass graphite composites and such. An outfit ready to fish will end up costing around $100. Better? perhaps an early Orvis Far and Fine or Western Graphite, they are for graphite somewhat slow (alot like glass you can feel them load with the proper line selection, here I would say one weight over the stated weight by the mfg) these rods will run $100 plus in a similiar length 5 or 6wt.
There is a large number of glass rods in this same $100 range.
Next would be a reel, dont buy one till you buy the rod, its a balance thing, the shorter or lighter a rod the lighter the reel must be to balance the outfit so that at least at the end of the cork grip you get equal balance with the reel loaded with line, backing, leader and tippet. Its really important that no matter what combo you get, that it balances, trust me on this.
NOW the terrible kicker, and sense your not a fly fisher, your gonna have to hang with some of your locals no matter where you live. YOU need to know what works for flys in your fishing area. It takes a far different rod to fish mini flys, dry and midges and SMALL nymphs than it does bass bugs, medium to small poppers, most buggers, streamers and just about any fly larger than a hook size 12.
Frankly you need to get with your local fly fishing groups to find out what everybody else is using and where and why, you will find fly fishers more than willing to help you, at least here where I live its the way it works. Once you know what works locally then you can ask them and us here what sounds best for your local conditions.
Fly fishing can be alot of fun, but if you pick a wet piece of noodle or a pool cue you might not be happy upon your first exposure. wi
Believe me, some of the highest priced technical line throwers in Graphite today are broom handles or pool cues to cast. Some of the available other material rods can be so noodly that your fly will barely clear the tip top of the rod.
Depending on your location and fishing conditions you need to pick your first rod, just so you can learn how a rod loads, what it feels like loaded. How a cast is to feel and look, you should be able to roll cast 40-50ft without effort, to single haul that same distance, with your choisen combo, then and only the you should move on to learning presentation of the fly and how fly size and composition changes the whole thing.
Fly fishing has never been a snap to learn or Master just exactly the reason it draws us so. I anybody and everybody was doing it I think it would not be so much fun. YOU have to want to fly fish, want to learn and want to show yourself a complete idiot as you learn. Sort of like your first two wheeler bike but without training wheels.
Fly fishing is definately a learned sport, just exactly why its not the #1 fishing choice or sport. YOU have to really want to learn and want to do it, however its totally unique and your first hookup and caught fish will be an everlasting experence.
Its addictive, trust me, Ive been a fly fisherman for over 50 years.
As far as light lines and equipment, it all depends on your fishable conditions. While I love light and ultra light, my conditions only allow the use of ulta lights in winter when the winds here locally are down and the turist are none existant along with a total absense of campers.
Richard


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:51 am • # 16 
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Richard, that book you just wrote should be published ;)


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:16 pm • # 17 
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Richard's right......

The thing that I really like about fly fishing is that it is something that you continue to learn about....refine your skills....learn new techniques etc etc etc....no matter how long you do it.

David


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:56 am • # 18 
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David,
I guess that's how it becomes a passion.


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:28 pm • # 19 
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An interesting starter setup that I think someone new to a somewhat higher grade setup than the old Eagle Claw rig and in keeping with the concept of feeling the rod load yet having a somewhat good compromise might be the FlyLogic Series of Premium flyrods and reels. Sense both the rods and reels are made in America, I must say I like that concept right out. Three years ago I bought on Ebay one of their Optimum Series Rods, the FLO 803/3, an 8ft 3-pc for line size 3-4. Yes they actually recommend that both lines work equally well on this rod. I picked up the equally nice Optimum Series FLO 234 reel to match with their rod. Frankly after casting it for the better part of an early season, I liked it so well that I purchased the same rod in a 9ft 5-6wt and the same reel in the FLO 456. It fished most of the late season equally well. Poiint being their equipment is little spoken of, yet its very nice equipement and with some careful buying, (I picked mine up from the factory or factory sales on ebay) for about 35% below their retail pricing. Which puts a rod/reel with careful buying in at under $400 not the combined list price of $680.
While I dont ever remember reading what the reel weight or rod weight was, I found that outside they were light in the hand and perfectly balanced. For both outfits I bought additional spools so that I could fish all four line weights for a varity of conditions. If I get a chance tomorrow I will pull out the 3-4wt outfit and snap a picture or two, its one of the outfits in my ready rack for winter early spring.
Having the more expensive Makers equipement as well, I feel its a very well made and competitive outfit at quite a few bucks below a Scott, Winston, Thomas & Thomas or Sage for the same quality level. Funny thing is we never hear anything about them and they are made right in the good old USA, in Melba Idaho. they have a website "www.flylogic.com" with suggested retail pricing and the prices you normally see in stocking shops, however the ebay prices are quite a bit lower. Like I said I picked both combo's up for around 35% below their listed retail pricing.
Richard


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 Post subject: Beginner rig help
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:41 am • # 20 
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Thanks for the information on flylogic Richard. I will keep them in mind in the future as I really like to buy american.

Anyway, I received the ross combo the other day and am extremely pleased with the rod and the tube it comes in. I must say that the packing the rod and reel came in was superb, many pieces of neoprene like foam protecting the rod and reel. The rod (it is the FC model 3/486-4) has an very nice cork grip, no voids and sanded nicely, feels like velvet. The real seat is walnut and is decent. The reel locking rings are satin nickel plated aluminum and very,very attractive. The best part of the rod is the finish. It is a deep dark red that is barely translucent. In the shade it appears a brown but in the the sunlight is mesmerizing. Everyone that has seen it plays with it in the sun trying to figureout if what they are seeing is real or just an illusion. There is also fine gold wrappings up the rod that glitter in the sun but not to flashy, A rod that one would be proud to own but not so flashy to attract attention from a fellow 20 feet away.
I am not going to take pictures as I feel that they would not show the depth of finish and pictures are painfully slow to upload on my dialup. There are pictures here- http://www.rossreels.com/...-fly-rods/fc/fly-rods.cfm

The reel, well is a ross #1 flycast model, second one up in their line, I am sure everyone has seen, held, or used one before.

The case is well made. Cordura over hard plastic tube of some sort. There is a pocket for each rod section and a padded zip up reel cover. The Carry strap is adjustable and has clips. Easy to carry over your shoulder or even throw across you back if you decide to bike to the local fishing hole, something I hope to do often this year.

One thing I didn't expect is the video that comes with it is made with quality camera work and sound. The fellow that is the star of the video is Mel Kriger. The name of the video is beginnings- An introduction to fly fishing. His enthusiasm is infectious and he talks in a common sense tone with little technical jargon or dialog that expects one to know the basics before watching it. Good underwater photography of trout taking flys and good shots of trout in clear streams. I have read the orvis book before hand but would recommend the video to a beginner as it is short enough to keep intrest, have enough information to get one out of the water for the first time, and a huge dose of enthusiasm to make one want to learn more.

In short I feel that JUST the rod would be worth the 135 dollars in comparison to the reddington and TFO rods I have seen in the store for 150-170 dollars(I have not used this rod, I am evaluating appearance only). The rod according to Ross's website is 169 retail. The rod case, reel and video make it a great value. The retail on this set up was 260 dollars and the only other set up that has the case as far at I know is the TFO NXT setup and it is 170 dollars

With the order I recieved two more codes for 20 percent off that must be used by 3-31-09 at sierra trading post, PM me if you would like to have one.

Jay Moyer


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