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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:12 am • # 1 
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I have a very good 00wt, 1wt, and3 wt. I have a 6'6" (4) 2wt. that is good for just in case, that lives in the truck. I need a longer 2wt. thats more of a 2wt and less of a 3wt. I was looking at two rods 1.) The Orvis T3 2wt 7'9" I have an Orvis store 15 min. from home, good people. I found the rod online for $275.00??? 2.) Echo Carbon 7'3" 2wt. $169.00 Echo seams shady, no warranty info on their web sight???? They don't even list the weights of their rods???? I have a friend that has a 4wt echo and he's fished it for years with out any problem. Does anyone own a Orvis T3 2wt. or Echo Carbon ?


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:49 am • # 2 
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On the Echo...forget it being a 2wt. Every Echo I have cast has been more of a line weight higher than the marked weight. The Orvis T3 is a mid-flex and should be pretty close to the marked weight however, it is marked for a WF line unlike most other rods (this will get debated into the ground). Orvis is notorious for rating their rods for WF as opposed to a DT.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:01 pm • # 3 
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I have an Echo 7'6 3wt "Classic" model that I really like. I've had it for a few years and it was my intro into the lighter side of fly fishing. I've fished a WF3 and DT4 on it and, although it isn't "glass" slow, I wouldn't call it a fast rod at all (and I am the king of overlining rods to slow them down). I have a Cabela's "Traditional" 6'6 2wt that is decidedly faster than the Echo. In fact I'll use the same reel and line on both the Cabelas and the Echo and I like the action of the Echo better. I've not cast the Echo "Carbon" rods. I would categorize the Echo Classic as "medium fast."

If you build your own rods there are several blanks out thre that you might consider.

I talked to Dorber on the phone today and FINALLY they have my Ultraweave 7'6 2wt blank in stock after being shut down by an ice storm a few weeks ago. The money order goes into the mail tommorrow and hopefully I'll start that build in the next couple of weeks.....just in time for Spring!!!!!

Here's a shot of the little Echo.

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David


Last edited by armyflyfisher on Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:17 pm • # 4 
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well, Andy, you confused me with the statement that orvis rated their rods with wf instead of dt. This may need to be a different thread but isn't dt and wf the same weight for the first 30 feet of line, minus the tip, irregardless of taper?, because if its not, I'm confused. Don't a 3 weight dt and a 3 wt. wf weigh out the same for the first 30 feet?


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:35 pm • # 5 
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I just picked up an Elkhorn Traveler 8' 4pc 2 wt in a trade and fished it this afternoon. It is definitely a 2 wt and is quite a bit slower than my Sage LL 2 wt--it flexes pretty far down the blank. It casts very nicely and looks like it's well built. The only downside I see is that they used nickel-silver hardware which makes the cork reel seat pretty heavy. The rod weighs 2.5oz but I'm pretty sure you could lose 1/2 oz of that by swapping the nickel-silver out and using aluminum or just a slip ring. Looks nice though.

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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:19 pm • # 6 
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Pearow that's always been my understanding too. 30' of line + 5-6' of leader and couple feet of tippet is pushing 40' and for a 2 wt that's about the limit of what I'll have in the air and usually it will be much less than that.

Having said that I still prefer a DT just for the 2 lines for 1 cost savings.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:22 am • # 7 
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FFAndy
Gene's correct on this one. AFTMA ratings apply to the first 30' of the fly line minus the tip. So.......a WF, DT, ST line of a specific weight should all be in the parameters of that line weight.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:07 am • # 8 
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However, Orvis has stated they rate their rods for a WF. Normally, when a rod is rated for a DT4, it tosses a WF5F line better than a WF4F. This is part of why the new fast rods are so damned fast with the "rated" line weight.

However, it may have changed in recent years. I know 20 years ago, Orvis rated everything for WF, while everyone else rated their stuff for DT. There is a difference, albeit a small one. The ten feet past the head is where the difference is at, but this is all conjecture based upon previous information.

I know how lines are rated, but rods, there is no standard to speak of, hence, CCS.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:33 am • # 9 
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Andy I know what you're saying and I totally agree that the difference between a DT and WF can be pretty substantial once you get past the head. At the same time, unless you get a really fast 2 wt (or any other UL rod), you probably won't be carrying more than 30' of fly-line in the air very often so the difference between a DT and WF probably won't be very noticeable.

We ran into this yesterday while trying to figure out a line that really matches John's Driggs taper. I have a 5 wt DT that I cut at 38' and attached to some running line (to fit it on a smaller reel). Visually the transition is very noticeable--there's a loop connection and the line goes from the peach DT to a white running line. As long as that connection never went out the guides you were effectively just using the first 30' of line so it could have been a DT or WF. Three of us were casting that rod and I know I never lifted more than 30' of fly-line (plus an 8' leader) off the water for a backcast although I did shoot over 30' once or twice. And this was a 5 wt.

To confuse matter even more, the Sage Quiet DT lines actually taper down like WF line after the head--it's like two short WF lines back to back. The Rio Select Trout DT lines do the same thing, so now you can't even count on a DT line to be level once you get past the head. :-)


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:02 am • # 10 
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There are several variables here beside the weight of the first 30' of line. Core stiffness, coating stiffness, shape of the head, and diameter of the line all contribute at least as much to the difference in castability. You notice these things with the oddball tapers. The Rio Windcutter has the tip 1 line size down with a belly one line size up to average at the AFTMA standard. The Snowbee delicate presentation has a very long front taper. Intermediate lines load better than floaters. Silk is more supple, etc. Rio Ridgelines are fast through the guides.

Generally, DF are great for carrying line in the air with the level taper behind the tip. But they don't generate as much speed, so the whole line may fall to the water as the head is unrolling. WF are great for shooting, or would be, if the belly weren't so long. You can't generalize at all about cane, because the tip tapers are so diverse. Graphite and glass tend to have progressive actions because they are rolled on a mandrel.

After you think you got it wired, then you have to figure out which furled leader to use! Don


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:26 am • # 11 
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Yeah, I should have clarified further by saying that a DT and WF line of the same make and model (like a 444 Classic) will usually behave the same in the first 30'. You can't count on two DT lines (or WF) from different manufacturers behaving the same even if they are the same line wt.

On slightly related note I mentioned the other day about all the line manufactuers now producing lines in half-sizes. I did a quick check and found that Cortland has them in their Selective line that are marked as half-sizes (4.5 wt, etc.), and in their Pro Cast model that are just half a line wt heavy. Orvis Power Taper lines are all 1/2 a line size heavy, as are the SA GPX and Head Start lines. I know the GPX come in a couple UL sizes but am not sure about the others. There are probably more companies out there doing this same thing but I haven't run into them. If you're really finicky it gives you even more options when fine-tuning your gear.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:11 am • # 12 
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what it does is makes you buy more lines because its more difficult to match the rod and line in today's market. Most rods are not marked correctly. The cabela's clear creek one weight is a two weight; some of the 6'6"-2 weights are really 4 weights, or 3 weights, so testing them with the line is crucial.


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 Post subject: Looking for a new 2wt
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:50 pm • # 13 
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Yep Gene...you are exactly right.


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