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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:22 am • # 1 
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Just got word that Gudebrod Corporation has closed its doors. How sad. They've been around as far back as I can remember.  Guess it was bound to happen.  When we can buy a very fishable fly for for $21 retail the handwriting is on the wall.

Sad day indeed Image

Tom




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:42 am • # 2 
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Not an uncommon story.
Many US rod manufacturers have been forced to move production overseas, and as a result the average fisherman can get a fully functioning rod for less with a no fault warranty. In most cases, this means there is little economic motivation to build up rods.
As for flies, the average imported fly will work well and costs the same as a handtied by somone like myself. This probably spelled doom for its tying threads as well.

Les


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:16 pm • # 3 
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Gudebrod lost a very large Dental Floss contract and that put the nails in the coffin. Sad really. Wrapping thread was a rather small part of their business. I guess I'll just use up what I have left and then start to use Pac Bay thread, which is nice stuff too.

J.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:36 pm • # 4 
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Les
Most countries tie a good fly. China?  I'll pass. I'm sure they work in China but the ones I've seen are sad indeed. For all I know they may work here too but I just can't bring myself to tie one on.

That's one place I guess I stick with tradition. Classic salmon flies tied on real salmon hooks. Not the show piece ones, working flies. Trout flies again traditional. Red Quills, Coachman, Cahills....

Tieing flies is as much a part of fly fishing for me as the actual fishing itself.  Nymphs, well that's pretty much a fly for anything with fins. Mine are bushy, straggly, ugly, and the fish love them. Not any famous names here, just my imitations from turning over a few million rocks in streams and rivers over the years Image

J
How many did that put out of work? Who got the contract? Ah, it's not important I guess, it's done.  Every day we seem to lose a little more ground.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:54 pm • # 5 
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Tom, I'm not sure how many folks lost out on that deal. As for the the contract, I don't know that one either, but wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was farmed out to the Orient.

J.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:02 am • # 6 
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we'll wake up one day to 10-15% unemployment with the middle class getting the brute of the lack of jobs; the economy cannot recover without a viable middle class; our government leaders sit on their toots while allowing greater corporate profits with overseas investment and job relocation; we'll get to finger pointing and our political parties faulting each other; the end result will be decades of recession; decaying infastructure, and a two class society; haves and have nots; ultimately realizing our #1 enemy is our GREED. This is offtopic. Sorry for the rant-p-


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:06 am • # 7 
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pearow wrote:
we'll wake up one day to 10-15% unemployment with the middle class getting the brute of the lack of jobs; the economy cannot recover without a viable middle class; our government leaders sit on their toots while allowing greater corporate profits with overseas investment and job relocation; we'll get to finger pointing and our political parties faulting each other; the end result will be decades of recession; decaying infastructure, and a two class society; haves and have nots; ultimately realizing our #1 enemy is our GREED. This is offtopic. Sorry for the rant-p-
I know that the "official" unemployment numbers are like 9%, but that doesn't take into account anyone one that didn't qualify, or ran out of unemployment benefits. I'm one of the folks that didn't qualify for unemployment since my last job was temporary. The real number is probably between 15-20%. Our Government works for big business, not us. They haven't done squat to address jobs, but they gave us so called health care reform. I didn't know that you could call forcing us to buy private insurance reform. As things get worse, people will take to the streets and we will have civil unrest.

I've said it many times, but no one seems to listen. I'll say it again though. Stop voting for Democrats and Republicans. Get involved in grass root efforts to elect anyone from other parties. The two party system is badly broken, and we shouldn't be forced to vote for the lesser of two evils, if you can even call it that anymore. All candidates from either party are equally a joke. Do not support the Plutocracy we have become, and get back to average people running this country, not the wealthy. When the wealthy call the shots, everyone else gets screwed. Everyone needs to open their eyes, get off their fat arses, and do something about the issues we face. We can't rely on a corrupt Government to solve any of our problems, so we have to do it ourselves.

I had to rant too Gene, don't apologize.

J.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:59 am • # 8 
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It IS on topic and we're all in this together. Jeremy states it for what it is, LISTEN to him. I've been saying the same thing for years. My politics are to the right of Attila The Hun, and I'm not changing posture.

Election time.  Here they come, from under rocks, out of thin air.  Social bottom feeders, parasites. One commonality, they all have enough money to buy the position.  We the people are coned into believing we have a choice by voting.  It comes down to two.  In the end the choice is to vote for idiot A, or, moron B, while the correct answer which is not on the ballot is C, None of the above.

They all have the same BS story because it's what sells in an election. Jobs. Really. And what kind of jobs are you putting in place? Part time shelf stockers in grocery stores? Seasonal workers on the ski slopes?

Let's give small companies tax breaks. W R O N G !  I'm not talking Mom & Pop real small companies here, they're legit.  I'm targeting the 3 to 50 million companies.  These companies have ripping off the system down to a science.  Company cars and all the fuel they can burn written off as a "business" expense.  It goes on and on but I get sick even talking about it.

Solution time. You move manufacturing to Korea, Taiwan, or China, all workers that you lay off will be paid for life. You can afford it lizard with all the money you save.  You hire people and get rid of them like garbage on a whim?  Wonderful! $250,000 fine for every one hired that you get rid of, funds go to the disposed of. Let's see if I understand this.  You get paid $7 million a YEAR IN SALARY, PLUS STOCK OPTIONS, PLUS....and you can't decide how much labor you need in a real number? You Sir are the one that needs to be in the bread line.

It is greed, plain and simple. It's what will be the demise of this country.  We are no longer a government of the people by the people for the people.  Instead we are a government for the government, for the special interest groups, and for the companies that are profit driven at the expense of the very work force that keeps them alive.

Guys like us will never be in office.  One we don't have the money to buy the position, and two, if we ever did get in it would be odds of 1:100,000 to really change anything.  I loved it when Sarah Palin got on TV and said; "It's been over a year now, how do you like it so far?"

The current system does not work. It's broken, corrupt, and just all wrong.  It's time for change, big change, and time for us to take control of our own destiny and not leave it in the hands of morons and idiots.

Thanks Jeremy for saying your piece, more need to do likewise.

Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:54 am • # 9 
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Tom,
     I like to tie ugly flies as well. I used to think that Chinese flies were junk, and bought the high dollar "hand tied" flies from 2 local stores. One, a sporting goods store and the other a fly shop. One day I walked into the sporting goods store and found the big oak fly cabinet gone. I asked one of the regular clerks, what gives, and was told that the prepacked Chinese flies were all that would be carried from now on. Oh...(I kind of groaned), the clerk then tells me that there the same flies. Why are the loose flies almost a $1.00 more? Gotta pay for the oak cabinet somehow.Image To make a long story shorter, I got a hold of the importer and found out that the sporting goods store (which had about 50 patterns) was not it's biggest local customer. The biggest local customer was a fly shop. This wouldn't bother me but that shop sells it's flies at $3.00 and up. They also sell about 5 or 6 patterns (out of 150) from local guys, mostly guys from the shop. If the high price is ever mentioned they chime in with, "you have to pay for quality", or "a lot of these flies are tied by local anglers". I never called them out on this just quit going to the shop. In the end the #16 Parachute Adams at the fly shop $3.00, the oak fly cabinet $2.25 and prepackaged $1.25 were the exact same fly.         


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:28 am • # 10 
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That certainly blows me away as I have not seen anywhere near that quality of flies coming from China.  Not that I'm saying I don't think they are capable, I just haven't seen it yet.  What I have seen is flies that sell for very short money.  Now you have me wondering. If I were to send them a hand tied fly from one of us I wonder if they could duplicate it?  What would be a good pattern to test them on?  We may be able to get flies for less than we are paying for hooks!  Even $1.25 is steep for a fly from SEA.  I'm thinking more like $.25 a fly retail.  4 for $1.00, I like the sounds of that Image  Maybe we'll throw a few patterns at them to try.  What do we have to lose.  I'll foot the shipping and the leg work.  Gee, it may be the first thing I have coming in that don't have a $500-$800 shipping bill attached to it.  A thousand flies can't weigh more than a few ounces.

A shootout stare and compare on flies. Should make for an interesting thread.  Hackle chickens in China could become scarce Image

Tom

Les, I keep looking at that HUGE brown up top and there has got to be a story behind that fish. UL gear? Story, story.....Please?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:05 pm • # 11 
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Tom,
That Brown came out of the AR White River and was caught back in '08 on an egg pattern drifted through a riffle. I was using a Sage 5wt 10 foot Z Axis and my wife used a 4wt Z Axis on her 36" Brown. In a sense, her using a 4wt was almost like using UL - The fish bent the rod all the way to the cork grip and ran so hard the drag burned out. Cool stuff.

Les


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:10 pm • # 12 
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Les, All I can say is WOW! When the tip hits the cork on the grip you know it's a good one. What was the reel? I've had a lot of guys cook drags on reels in salt water fishing, not my reels but some of the very well known names. Was it a clicker or a high tech jobbie?

We did a lot of flatlining on Newfound with Fenwick 1456 standup tuna rods. And we've had lakers hit the rods so hard the tips would bounce off the transom! The knees turn to rubber when that happens Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:21 pm • # 13 
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It was a Sage reel matched to a sage rod. Gotta say I was kinda surprised as much the guide was. He had the drag knob cranked down hard, and I think instead of slowing the fish it generated a lot of heat and friction. The reel never functioned the same later.
The guide was friends with the Sage rep and sent him photos of the fish and tackle as well as an explanation of what happened. None of this worried me as it was not my gear; however I'm certain that Sage made good on it.

Les


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:54 am • # 14 
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We don't realize the speed that some of those fish run which is why I'm suspect that the clicker pawl reels are highly regarded, especially in the salmon fishing end of it. The faster the fish runs the more the reels scream, and it is possible to estimate the speed of the run.

A reel engineered with bearings is one thing, as friction is minimal, and most have disc brake systems. The material used in the brakes makes a huge difference. Friction creates heat which cause materials to "grow". If the coefficient of thermal expansion is similar in the mating compoents of the drag system problems don't usually occur.  It's when they are not that it can go all bad. Either the drag fades entirely, or it ceases up.

At the first sign of anything erratic, or, any sudden "off" odors I say sink that puppy right in the water and cool it down.  That's the "to do" thing in salt water, but man is that salt brutal on fishing tackle.

Diameter, and or placement of the drag also can have a huge affect on performance. Since the outside diameter of the spool revolves at much higher rpm than does the diameter at the spindle (surface footage formula) the wisdom would say to keep the drag system small, and close to the center of the reel. For the most part this works.  However, exceptional fish such as what you caught can test the very best designs, and in some cases, defeat them.

The next generation in high tech fly reels is off the board and in production.  Like anything new in technology it's expensive due to R&D, prototypes, and tooling investments.  The first reel with the new innovation is called the XPS, targeted at the Salmon and salt water fly fisherman.  The new brake system is very close to the diameter of the spool which is where the highest speed is.  Logically, checking speed here is the quickest way to slow the reel down.  What makes the new system quite unique is the fact that the "brakes" actually work with the back face of the spool!  The early reports of the reels is use is quite impressive.

Though the reels are by our definition monsters in size I'm suspect it won't take long for the technology to migrate to smaller reels, and eventually to UL size reels.

I have a few in route as we speak and will post the new system when it gets here. It will make an interesting picture for sure. A micro UL reel on the left, a fly reel for tuna on the right!

Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:16 am • # 15 
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Give me a simple click and pawl...with a adjustment to keep the line from backlashing when I pull line off the reel..and a palming rim...less parts to break...and with the palming ring makes me feel in charge of the battle...Of course that is just me...I still switch all my reels to right hand retrieve cause this is how I learned to fly fish when I was in my teens...I enjoy vintage equipment or equipment that "looks" vintage or different in some way...And I still think a '67 Ford pickup with "three on the tree" and a 300 6 cylinder is the best pickup ever made...So, you can see where my head is at!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:56 am • # 16 
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Rob
Most of the vintage reels are big. Back in their day there were no 2 wt and under rods. I have seen a few with palming rims but it wasn't the norm. I believe it was Orvis that started the 2 weights and they even had a neat little reel to go with it.

That's why I like those little Bearcub reels.  It just don't get any more basic than that. Just you against the fish, winner takes all.

As for the 67 Ford, you date yourself my friend. I go back even further. 1955 Chevy, originally a 235 CI straight 6. A pimple faced kid with a hand full of wrenches swapped out the motor and dropped in a 327 short block with dual quads on an Edelbrok Hi rise manifold. It was the fastest thing on wheels in the town. It also became prime target No1 for the Pelham Police force as the kid couldn't keep his foot off the gas pedal. Image


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